tangential issues from a mishap thread

[JeffG]

I'm beginning to believe that the fundamental problem here is that dive professionals in Alberta don't how to perform a rescue ... much less teach one.

Coldwatercanada is proof of that.

I am not sure that Alberta instructors are that bad (I do know of some good ones), but there are a whole bunch that I wouldn't trust with anything.

But maybe they are that bad and they have clouded my perceptions of all the other instructors across the world. And maybe that has lead me to be giving these other instructors a disservice over the years of my interaction on SB.

 

[JeffG]

and don't worry once everyone stops arguing with me or complains about me enough ill be gone from the boards again

Why don't you PM me with your real info. I would be curious. If I don't know you (or of you) I am sure I would know people that would.

It would amuse me.

 

[DandyDon]

Who cares who he was before he was banned.

 

[nadwidny]

I wonder when Brian will see this thread?

Now. And I'm pissed.

Firstly condolences to the family and friends of the victim. It tears our community's heart out when we lose a diver.

Seondly, I am president of the Alberta Underwater Council (previously referred to as something like "weirdos from the AUC"). On Monday I heard from our executive director that 2 of our members from our board of directors were involved in the rescue effort. I would like to thank them both for their efforts. Having been involved in a body search and recovery this past weekend I can sympathize with what they went through, and are still going through. My thoughts are with them.

Thirdly, besides myself there are about 2 people in Edmonton that really, truly, have 1300 cold water dives, 400 warm water dives and I dive with both of them. CWC is not one of them. I don't know right now who he is but judging by his posting style I have a pretty good idea. I will find out who you are and I will make sure no reputable dive store in Alberta will let you in their doors ever again.

 

[Thalassamania]

Is a disreputable dive store in Alberta?

 

[Edmonton Fun Diver]

Hey, I am new here and found the board trying to research what happened!

Really Shocked that the Director of AUC would resort to threats. Who really cares who CWC is and where he goes to buy his gear, this Canada and freedom of speech is what makes us a great nation.

We as divers need to band together and do what we can to make diving saver as it does have it risks cold or warm water. Accidents happen and for what I can see none of us were there and really knows what happened. None of us are effected as much as the family that has lost there son and the dive professionals involved. We need to stop the finger pointing and rumors, lets stick to the facts. PADI will investigate as it does all training dive incidents and a report will be filed with DAN.

I wish the best to family of individual who died this weekend doing something I sure he loved to do. I also wish the best to the professional dive staff and emergency services personal involved and others involved or who may have witnessed this accident.

Please let us all work/dive together and make diving in Alberta safe and memorable.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

CWC = Chris Crash? Just musing before I finish my coffee and get to work.

 

[MistressBiker]

I think it is also important to encourage divers to practice different proceedures they might use in an emergency. When they are not in a panic mode, they can think clearly. I still remember when I had just become an OW diver. I was on a trip in the Bay Islands and went on a deep dive. We were down over 80 feet and another diver started flailing about and kicked my mask off and regulator out of my mouth. I found my regulator first and secured my mask back over my eyes. When we got back to the surface the dive master told me he thought there was going to be an incident, but I handled everything very well. I have Scuba Sciences and the great training by Paul Wagenseller to thank for being prepared for this. I think some instructors spend more time than others on what may seem like useless training. I had to do almost the same thing in my certification dive in Catalina on a steep boulder covered slope, several times. I feel we should never stop training and err on the over training side with new divers. I went on to become a dive master with Scuba Sciences and always stressed practicing emergency proceedures. I am sure we all have stories like this, I just hate to see a diver injured because of panic, lack of training, etc.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Do you not think its a bad and potentially fatal idea to put 100% trust in your life with some random 3rd party who is a human and cannot be guaranteed to react appropriately in any given situation?
Do you really think a buddy is there to keep YOU safe?
A redundant air source is a far saner idea. And divers that take responsibility for their own safety.

It depends on the buddy ... but there are some situations a pony bottle cannot fix. You are faced with four choices ...

- Acquire the skills to self-rescue
- Choose buddies you CAN depend on
- Accept the risks
- Don't do the dive

These are not necessarily mutually exclusive, and may be applied in different combinations depending on the dive.

Rather than promote the use of pony bottles, I would prefer the approach of training people how to be a reliable dive buddy ... and how to be choosy about who they get in the water with. This is a fundamental part of my AOW curriculum, and throughout the dives this approach is taught in repeated skills and scenarios.

As long as the diving industry embraces the philosophy of diving with a buddy, it is in the diver's best interest to learn how to be one ... and how to choose one ... who they can count on to be of assistance if it should be needed.

The problem with the current approach to training is that they tell you what you should do ... but they neglect to teach you how to do it. How many of you out there went through your OW training without ever learning how to maintain eye contact with your buddy ... or communicate with each other beyond flashing an OK signal ... even when you really weren't ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think it is also important to encourage divers to practice different proceedures they might use in an emergency. When they are not in a panic mode, they can think clearly. I still remember when I had just become an OW diver. I was on a trip in the Bay Islands and went on a deep dive. We were down over 80 feet and another diver started flailing about and kicked my mask off and regulator out of my mouth. I found my regulator first and secured my mask back over my eyes. When we got back to the surface the dive master told me he thought there was going to be an incident, but I handled everything very well. I have Scuba Sciences and the great training by Paul Wagenseller to thank for being prepared for this. I think some instructors spend more time than others on what may seem like useless training. I had to do almost the same thing in my certification dive in Catalina on a steep boulder covered slope, several times. I feel we should never stop training and err on the over training side with new divers. I went on to become a dive master with Scuba Sciences and always stressed practicing emergency proceedures. I am sure we all have stories like this, I just hate to see a diver injured because of panic, lack of training, etc.

That is a great first post! Welcome to ScubaBoard.

This is so important. I give gas management seminars at various dive shops and clubs in our area, and at a seminar earlier this year I asked a group of 17 how many had practiced an air share since their OW class ... two people raised their hands.

How many of those people do you think would remember what to do in a real emergency?

I'd say probably two ... :shocked2:

You don't "learn" skills in a class ... you learn how to learn them. The learning takes place through repetition ... and a stressful underwater situation isn't the place to try remembering something you did once, in a controlled setting. I emphasize to my students that they should practice their skills until they can do them without thinking about it ... because that way if the situation calls for them, and they are task-loaded, they don't HAVE to think about it ... their body will know what to do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)