13 year old and Padi JOW cert

[CindyMac]

I am a great believer in Einstein's theory that it takes a clever person to make things sound simple. Too often the PADI manuals are not simple. When I was assisting my son (then aged 10) I tried to rephrase a lot of things for him. When he was working on his tables, I told him: "Forget residual nitrogen time... just call them "penalty minutes" which you have to add onto your real dive time."

I doubt they ever will, but if PADI is going to teach JOWD to 10 year olds, I think they would be well advised to produce a rewritten manual which is designed to use simplified words and phrases. It could also then be used in Alabama.

Excuse me, but I'm from Alabama and had no trouble with any of the words in the PADI manuals. Most Alabamians are well educated, contrary to majority media coverage. I am a Registered Nurse. I've worked pediatric critical care (ventilators, ECMO, CRRT) as well as pediatric dialysis (hemodialysis, CRRT and plasmapheresis). I've taught PALS (Pediatric Advanced Life Saving) classes.

I have also been a trainer on a new computer system that the healthcare system I worked for implemented. You have to teach to the lowest learning level. I taught classes that were very basic (how to turn on a computer and use Windows) to advanced (the Medication Administration section).

All patient education material has to be written on a fifth grade learning level. You would not believe how difficult that is to do. Try breaking down "ECMO" down to that level!

When I took my class, there was a fifteen year old certifying with his dad. Did some of the words get changed? Yes! But the teen got the concept and that's what counts. In all the classes I taught, I found that I had to modify my word choices to fit the learner. In all the patient education I've done, I had to apply the same principles.

Off my soapbox now.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

This thread supports my point that you lose something, actually many things, when you lose the classroom. I find that true as a part time professor at a local university and I find that true with scuba classes. One of the things lost, as mentioned in this thread, is explanation of new terms. There is nothing wrong with dad explaining new terms so the student LEARNS THE NEW TERMS. The key is learning new terms, learning the language of diving. So let that caveat be your guide.
Since there is no "instructor" for e-learning, dad may need to step in a little. But whether in the classroom (or on the computer), pool or open water let your child do their own work. It is important that they do it. That's your future dive buddy there. Let them get competent. As you "help, also be careful to limit your presence with him, and unless he is "stuck," stay away. Remember, scuba isn't like little league or soccer. Other than depth and buddy limitations, every diver regardless of age is functioning at the same level. Let's be sure our kid's learn to be safe, courteous and competent divers, even if that means we as parents have to back off a little.
Once the book work is done, I have a few thoughts as to pool and open water dives with junior divers. If you are interested, read my blog here on SB titled "To Parents of Junior Open Water Divers."

DivemasterDennis

 

[boulderjohn]

I doubt they ever will, but if PADI is going to teach JOWD to 10 year olds, I think they would be well advised to produce a rewritten manual which is designed to use simplified words and phrases. It could also then be used in Alabama.

It is very ironic that there is a current thread in which a poster is raging against PADI for writing the manual at a level a 10 year old can understand it. He feels it should be at the much more sophisticated level of instruction to which he has apparently grown accustomed. PADI is regularly attacked for having manuals written at what writers feel is too low a level.

 

[Diver0001]

There is nothing educationally unsound in helping someone understand something they are struggling with. If you just give people answers on tests, then that does them no good at all, but if you explain things in different terms that help them understand better, then that is indeed helping them. The important thing is that they understand the concepts, not how they came to understand the concepts.

John, what I do a lot is ask people "why".... "why" does the book say that... "why" is that answer not what they're looking for.... "what" would they do.... "why" would (wouldn't) that work..... "how" would you do it differently?

In my experience the "why" .... or asking any "open question" deepens comprehension by increasing awareness and forcing people to engage lateral thinking and inviting them to engage in a discourse.... but I'm just a hick who (literally) grew up in a mountain village in the middle of nowhere and got an instructor's certificate perhaps despite his background. As an education expert, what do you think of that approach... and can you suggest anything that might help improve it?

R..

---------- Post Merged at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:00 PM ----------

It is very ironic that there is a current thread in which a poster is raging against PADI for writing the manual at a level a 10 year old can understand it. He feels it should be at the much more sophisticated level of instruction to which he has apparently grown accustomed. PADI is regularly attacked for having manuals written at what writers feel is too low a level.

I saw that too. I find it entertaining, to say the least, that no matter what PADI does, some people will try to blame them for everything..... Kind of like being the president

R..

 

[OldNSalty]

Excuse me, but I'm from Alabama and had no trouble with any of the words in the PADI manuals. Most Alabamians are well educated, contrary to majority media coverage.

I am writting this from my office in Alabama. I thought the joke was funny...and honestly, "Most Alabamians are well ediucated" does not sound like a defendable position. Maybe it is different in your corner or we have a different understanding of 'well educated'.

 

[Akimbo]

This conversation is bringing up some interesting points. A lot of this becomes academic when training materials become electronic. Hot links and pop-ups provide definitions and detailed information just as Scubaboard does for BP/W, OW, and EAN. We are getting close to the point where tablets and computers rival paper for readability and convenience, but are not quite there. Hypertext links to well-produced video segments and possibly video becoming the primary presentation that follows the text isn't hard to imagine.

There will always be conflict between dumbing-down and too complex. I can even see texts that allow the user to select their level of expertise so the software selects how far to dumb-it-down for the individual. Imagine a course suitable for a 12 year old OW student clear up to a hyperbaric physician, in any language.

Before everyone gets their panties in a twist, I believe that this “teaching aid” should and will augment classroom time. It is difficult to conceive of duplicating the understanding that comes from student interaction with a competent moderator, even when the instructor has poor teaching skills. However, not everyone must be in the same location like many university classes are experimenting with now. Exciting times.

 

[boulderjohn]

John, what I do a lot is ask people "why".... "why" does the book say that... "why" is that answer not what they're looking for.... "what" would they do.... "why" would (wouldn't) that work..... "how" would you do it differently?

In my experience the "why" .... or asking any "open question" deepens comprehension by increasing awareness and forcing people to engage lateral thinking and inviting them to engage in a discourse.... but I'm just a hick who (literally) grew up in a mountain village in the middle of nowhere and got an instructor's certificate perhaps despite his background. As an education expert, what do you think of that approach... and can you suggest anything that might help improve it?

Absolutely. Asking people to explain why something is true demands that they understand the concept rather than just repeat words they found on a page.

 

[Rhone Man]

Excuse me, but I'm from Alabama and had no trouble with any of the words in the PADI manuals. Most Alabamians are well educated, contrary to majority media coverage.

You know that I was joking about Alabama, right?

---------- Post Merged at 01:02 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:00 PM ----------

It is very ironic that there is a current thread in which a poster is raging against PADI for writing the manual at a level a 10 year old can understand it. He feels it should be at the much more sophisticated level of instruction to which he has apparently grown accustomed. PADI is regularly attacked for having manuals written at what writers feel is too low a level.

I would respectfully refer them back to the wise words of Mr Einstein. Any fool can make something seem more complicated than it is. At the JOWD level, diving is not that complicated.

 

[smorneau]

At 13 if he doesn't understand the definition of a word, have him look it up in a dictionary or the very least look it up on the computer he is sitting in front of. That would be the mature thing to do.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

 

[supergaijin]

When I'm teaching I regularly use different words to explain the same thing. At school I hated when teachers read directly from text.

As a foreign language speaker this comes quite naturally when speaking English to non-native speakers as I generally have an idea what vocab they learn. Depending on the country some people struggle with American English.

There is nothing wrong with it IMO- just be careful with overstepping your 'help' and leading your son in to the correct answers.

People here shouldn't be criticising a kid's reading level- some kids struggle a bit with written material especially when using fairly new concepts such as buoyancy, volume, pressure etc.