Dive operator: "We won't let you ..."

[billt4sf]

I'm not sure of this is the right forum for this but I have learned alot from the forum here so I'll post.

What do people think of the exchange between me and a certain dive operator? We are thinking of going there but we want to make sure the dives are appropriate for us. My query first, followed by their response:



My query: We are novice divers, about 50 dives each. We did the AOW class but not the "Deep Diving" portion. It seems to me from reading your website that several dive sites would be better done if we did get that deeper experience before coming. We would really like to see some sharks and other larger creatures so I guess that deep diving cert is important - ?


Their response: Wedo not require an AOW certification incl. the deep adventure dive to let you do Deep Dives. Once the dive crew has seen you in the water diving and feels comfortable with your diving skills, you will certainly be able to do the deeper dives as well.
We will never put you in a situation you are not comfortable with and would work with you before you go on a deep dive.



Thanks in advance for your comments.

- Bill

 

[Tigerman]

First off - are you AOW certified? If so, how can you NOT have done the deep dive adventure? Deep and navigation is requirements for AOW.

EDIT: this applies to PADI specifically
Further, the 18m depth limit on OW certifications is a recommendation - my books give no absolute max for any cert other than 40m.

That being said, its not neccesarilly a good idea to go deeper than your recommended max without proper training and/or supervision (i.e. as part of a course)

The reason why a lot of dive ops require the AOW certification regardless of a divers skill level is liability and insurance issues and thats also one thing you should consider if you dont have a certification that allow you to dive to the depth of the chosen site - if youre uninsured and something should happen that require you to get medical attention or getting rescued it might cost you a LOT of money..

 

[EastEndDiver]

Why not mention the dive ops name so you can possibly get some "real" feedback about their operation?

From thier response I think they are being reasonable BUT anyone can say anything,your best bet would be to speak to others who have used them and then decide if they meet your criteria.

 

[Wookie]

I don't think I am the operator mentioned, but I could be. We do not require a deep specialty or AOW to dive with us. But then again, we are not a hand holding dive op, and I think our literature makes that clear.

If you need your hand held, why not dive with an operator that will do that? There are lots of them out there.....

 

[billt4sf]

First off - are you AOW certified? If so, how can you NOT have done the deep dive adventure? Deep and navigation is requirements for AOW..

Yes we are AOW certified and no, we did not do the Deep Dive specialty.

I am not looking to have my hand held. I am looking to go on dives that we enjoy that are consistent with our skills and training. I thought it was suspicious that the operator would say that they might lead us on deep dives without that training. Do you?

- Bill

 

[antattack]

Hi Bill- In your basic SCUBA class, we all learn that we are responsible for diving within our limits. Once you are in the water you will notice that there are no SCUBA police- unless you hire a Divemaster for any reason.

The Dive operators make up all kinds of rules to make it possible to run a repeatable business with limited liability.

You will dive with many dive operators over your diving career if you are fortunate.

I'd recommend being friendly, letting the dive operator know what kind of diving you WANT to do, and hiring them to help you do that kind of diving.

The kinds of dives you want to do will either fit with that dive operations practice, or you will find a dive operator that does work with your style and appetite for diving.

Bottom line is this- there are many divers who do not have a certification card for every activity they do underwater- and that's OK. There are some activities where it would be very nearly impossible to obtain the required skills. For example, it would be exceptional to see a rebreather diver who does not have all the required certs but still has the required skills. But again, we already learned that we are responsible for diving within our skills.

So get out there and have some fun. Talk to other divers and the dive operators. Do the dives you want to and are qualified to do. Then get some more training, also a fun part of the sport, and have some more fun!

Dive safe!

 

[Altamira]

I am glad that many operators can differentiate between the certificate paperwork and actual diving skill and ability. I only have OW, primarily because my dive partner/wife is not interested in doing the AOW, so I only dive to the depth and environment in which she is comfortable. That being said, we have been the bottom (top of ship) on the Hilmer Hooker which is well below the recommended depth for OW divers. Some folks seem to forget that the OW 60' depth is a recommended max depth, and view the recommended depth as a concrete base. For us, the key to safe and fun diving is diving within our individual skills, comfort level, and capabilities on every dive. We also are aware the those factors can change on any given day depending on conditions and interval between dives.

 

[supergaijin]

A single 'deep' dive is compulsory for AOW, but the Deep Specialty course is different.

The dive operator can guide people to whichever depth it sees fit.

 

[Hawkwood]

A single 'deep' dive is compulsory for AOW, but the Deep Specialty course is different.

The dive operator can guide people to whichever depth it sees fit.

Of course the OP has provided some confusion:

My query: We are novice divers, about 50 dives each. We did the AOW class but not the "Deep Diving" portion.

 

[Wookie]

Yes we are AOW certified and no, we did not do the Deep Dive specialty.

I am not looking to have my hand held. I am looking to go on dives that we enjoy that are consistent with our skills and training. I thought it was suspicious that the operator would say that they might lead us on deep dives without that training. Do you?

- Bill

I do not. The operator is allowing you to develop skills and abilities on your own. That's how most of us learned. My very first open water dive post certification was on a artificial reef off of Waikiki in massive current and 95 feet deep. At that point I realized that that wasn't how to build skills and abilities but to do it slowly and progressively. Does this operator only offer deeper dives than you are comfortable with? Will you do lots of diving with this operator? We operate mostly in a place where the bottom is 80 feet deep, but can be dived comfortably in 40 feet. Our last day is on a wreck that is in 157 feet of water, but you can dive it between 95 and 65 or so feet. Most divers who have been onboard for a week become far better divers than they started. If they were novices to start with, that is.

Most divers do not want arbitrary restrictions placed on their diving. We have 5 rules, 4 that are industry standards (130 depth, no deco, dive with buddy, don't run out of air) and one that is for crew work requirements by the coast guard (get in the water when the deck is open). We don't get much pushback to these rules. Everything else is up to you. With 50 dives, you should be comfortable in the water and getting ready to take baby steps in exploration on your own. Again, if you don't feel ready, by all means hire a guide.