Tough Lesson to learn, I'm not an instructor

[ScubaSteve]

Non divers are more than capable of understanding the true dangers of diving, it's not that complicated.

I don't think the OP has anything to worry about in terms of liability. The incident happened years ago, as far as I understand.

Does a non diver understand the concept that every breath will drain a tank at different rates depending on depth and subsequent surrounding pressures? I bet most have never heard of Boyle. Some dangers are obvious and many are not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.......figure it out

 

[peterbj7]

Not if they are not in a position to understand the true dangers (which a non diver is not in any position to understand all of the dangers) AND if the OP portrayed himself as a person that knew the dangers and could be trusted for their safety in the water. You need to remember, we live in a time/place where you can sue for almost anything.

Thank God I don't live in America. Britain is getting worse, but you would have to be a dive professional and severely negligent in discharging your duties to be successfully sued there in these circumstances. And here in Belize there would be no possibility of suing for anything, however culpable the "teacher".

 

[Superlyte27]

Let's see about that math you asked about.

250'/33 +1 = 8.57 ata. Let's say that as a new diver his normal sac rate is 1cu'/minute. And I'm being VERY generous here as must first time divers aren't even close to that, add in his panic factor, and I'd guess way way higher. But let's say 1cu'/minute at surface x 8.57 at depth. That's 8.57cu' at 250' every minute. If we only calculate the consumption at the bottom, and not the time to the bottom, or the time back to the surface, that tank would only last 9 minutes. That's not allowing for descent or ascent.

Actually, there's nothing on TV, so let me do ALL of the math...
I calculated this on my computer. If you did a 250' bounce dive with required deco, you'd require 83cu' of gas at a 1.0 SAC Rate.

 

[Dive-aholic]

It's crazy to think that a brand new diver would 'take off' and descend to 250ft. I don't know that an instructor would necessarily be able to help that type of 'student'. For me - at least on this forum - way too much emphasis is placed on the instructor's responsibilities and not enough on the student's.

Actually, I wonder if an instructor would have necessarily helped in either case.

Instructors are trained to look for signs of students about to do something they shouldn't be doing. Dive courses are also structured so that, if followed, students are taught about the dangers of diving and how to avoid them.

---------- Post added May 15th, 2013 at 05:32 PM ----------

Don't automatically assume an instructor would know better. I once knew one who thought it was a good idea to take AOW students ... two of them with less than 15 dives ... on a 200-foot bounce dive ... at night ... in Puget Sound. Vis was running about 6 to 10 feet due to heavy plankton bloom. Six divers went down. Two bailed almost immediately. Of the four who went to the bottom, three surfaced again. The fourth was found 10 months later, half-buried in the mud at abot 205 fsw.

The incident was widely discussed in this forum.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

True, instructors can be very stupid. There are instructors in North Florida that take non-overhead trained students into the caverns regularly. Some of them do it as a final tour during open water. Some of them do it because they don't want to drive to a suitable open water location and simply use what's convenient even if it's in an overhead and the students are not overhead trained.

 

[redacted]

Thank God I don't live in America. Britain is getting worse, but you would have to be a dive professional and severely negligent in discharging your duties to be successfully sued there in these circumstances. And here in Belize there would be no possibility of suing for anything, however culpable the "teacher".

I'm not at all sure we are all that different in the USA other than we seem to have quite a few folks who make (augment) a living as "dive professionals" who like to fly the liability flag when it benefits them.

 

[oldschoolto]

Let's see about that math you asked about.

250'/33 +1 = 8.57 ata. Let's say that as a new diver his normal sac rate is 1cu'/minute. And I'm being VERY generous here as must first time divers aren't even close to that, add in his panic factor, and I'd guess way way higher. But let's say 1cu'/minute at surface x 8.57 at depth. That's 8.57cu' at 250' every minute. If we only calculate the consumption at the bottom, and not the time to the bottom, or the time back to the surface, that tank would only last 9 minutes. That's not allowing for descent or ascent.

Actually, there's nothing on TV, so let me do ALL of the math...
I calculated this on my computer. If you did a 250' bounce dive with required deco, you'd require 83cu' of gas at a 1.0 SAC Rate.

Thank you sir..... I rest my case.....

Jim....

 

[Nirvana]

I'm coming a little late to this thread, but anyway, I would like to present another set of numbers.

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume a SAC of 0.7cu'/min, both to working phase and deco. You have to remember that it is never mentioned that the runaway diver was particularly stressed. Then, with a descent at a fixed rate of 50'/min, 1' bottom time, the diver could complete all the deco stops (VPM-B +3 conservatism) and ascend on 68.6cu'.

Yes, I know there are some favorable assumptions necessary (going straight from the surface to the bottom, commencing the ascent very quickly, etc) but, still, doable.

 

[eelnoraa]

Non divers are more than capable of understanding the true dangers of diving, it's not that complicated..

I would say the opposite. Non-divers just don't know the danger of diving. Before I got certifed, I have no idea about NDL, deco, embolism, nacrosys, O2 tox, how and why air consumption increase with depth ... The only thing I might have know is not to run out of air.


Assume the story as it is, it is very bad idea to teach scuba without instructor crudential. By crudential, I don't mean the card, but the knowledge to teach. And on top of that, bringing a first timer to a site with this kind of depth is another big mistake. A good instructor will probably not bring OW or even AOW student to this kind of site.

 

[billt4sf]

Reminds me of what my Dad used to say (which, at the time, I thought was stupid): "There's an easy way to learn, and a hard way".

Sounds like both of you choose the hard way. Holy Mackerel!

 

[nimoh]

I'm coming a little late to this thread, but anyway, I would like to present another set of numbers.

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume a SAC of 0.7cu'/min, both to working phase and deco. You have to remember that it is never mentioned that the runaway diver was particularly stressed. Then, with a descent at a fixed rate of 50'/min, 1' bottom time, the diver could complete all the deco stops (VPM-B +3 conservatism) and ascend on 68.6cu'.

Yes, I know there are some favorable assumptions necessary (going straight from the surface to the bottom, commencing the ascent very quickly, etc) but, still, doable.

being an untrained diver, they probably weren't aware that they were descending and as such were not adding gas to their BC, resulting in a descent much faster...probably in excess of 100' minute. However, without more detail in the OP, everything is just speculation, and probably not worth discussing.