Which BC for less than $300??

[Colliam7]

I do NOT want a BP/Wing at the moment, I want just your typical BC. Looking to spend around $300, maybe slightly more, slightly less..... Can you all provide recommendations as to what's the "best bang" for the dollar?

let me try this, is a BP/W recommended for beginners?

I am going to make a presumption, and I may be off base, but here goes. Your first, strong statement, suggests you have developed the impression that a BP/Wing is only for experienced divers, or tec' divers', and not appropriate for beginners. Your second statement indicates a willingness to hear comment on whether that impression is accurate or not. So, a direct answer to your second question: Yes, a BP/W is recommended for beginners. There is simply no reason why a BP/W should be disqualified as a good choice for a beginning diver. That doesn't mean it is the only choice. But, if your original statement was based on the mis-perception that a BP/W is not appropriate for beginners, then I am happy to correct that situation.

A BP/W is the simplest, most streamlined, most adaptable / flexible / versatile form of BCD. It may or may not be the least expensive. It may or may not be the best unit for everyone. But, it is perfectly appropriate for a new diver. I was in the pool with an OW student a week ago. In fairness, he is a 'natural' - comfortable in the water, has already developed good buoyancy control and trim. But, for his last Confined Water dive, I put him in my BP/W, and he loved it. His comment was, 'I feel like I don't have anything on, I feel absolutely free, this is great.'

The items you have listed are more or less similar, most are inexpensive, weight-integrated, and 3/5 are jacket BCDs. In fact if you look at one of them, such as the Aquapro 5, you see several of the others show up in the list of 'People who viewed this item also viewed' on the right side of the page. Pick any one of them, there is little difference. At least, the Aeris and the Oceanic are back-inflate units, although with 40 lbs of lift it is really hard to say that something like the Aeris is an optimal single cylinder BCD. There is nothing 'wrong' with any of them, and any would probably serve you competently as a first BCD for a new diver. One question to ask, at least from my perspective, is why would you spend $300 for a new, functionally mediocre, unit. The best bang for your buck in that case: used gear

The issue of buying gear before your open water dives is, as the responses suggest, not one upon which there is universal agreement. Arguments can be made either for having your own gear early on, or against buying before you try, or buying before you have a chance to sample different styles, or buying before you are sure you are truly 'hooked'. If you are simply looking for a cheap jacket BCD, don't spend your money before the dives - whatever shop you are taking instruction through can probably provide just such a BCD - that is what we put our OW students in.

Personally, I think a BP/W will hold its value longer than a jacket BCD or a soft back-inflate BCD. Just go on eBay and various Craigslist sites and see how many 'lightly used / slightly used / only used for 6 dives' jacket, and even soft back-inflate, BCDs are out there for sale, and see which ones bring prices anywhere near what the new retail value is.

 

[BPaith]

Well. Crap. I'm mildly interested in these BP/W setups now. I will only be diving lakes and tropical waters. Lakes only in the summer. How do I know if a 27lb wing works for me? I'm 5'5 and 140lbs.

I am now on the fence about buying a reg first though. That does seem a little more important.

---------- Post added August 21st, 2013 at 11:11 AM ----------

Colliam, you hit the nail on the head. I've always thought the BP/W was for more experienced divers.

 

[Colliam7]

Well. Crap. I'm mildly interested in these BP/W setups now. I will only be diving lakes and tropical waters. Lakes only in the summer. How do I know if a 27lb wing works for me? I'm 5'5 and 140lbs.

If you are diving warmer waters (lakes in the summer,or the Caribbean), with a 3mm, or even 5mm wetsuit, and presuming you are using an aluminum cylinder, a 27 lb wing is likely to be more than sufficient lift, with a 6lb SS BP, and whatever additional weight is required. There are a couple of threads / sticky notes on SB on wing lift calculation. I dive a HP100 steel cylinder, with a 3mm wetsuit and a 30 lb wing, and it is fine.

I am now on the fence about buying a reg first though. That does seem a little more important.

There are quite a few threads on SB about the sequence of gear purchase as well. And, there really isn't one and only one right approach. The BCD is a 'fit' item, while the reg is not, so getting something that fits YOU might seem more critical. At the same time, ensuring a functioning air supply might seem to be more critical than buoyancy. Six of one, 12 dozen of the other. More than a few people throw up their hands, and buy a dive computer as the first gear purchase.

Colliam, you hit the nail on the head. I've always thought the BP/W was for more experienced divers.

Glad I mentioned it then. Hopefully, all the discussion in the thread will help you evaluate a range of options.

 

[CT Sean]

How do I know if a 27lb wing works for me? I'm 5'5 and 140lbs.

Your personal body size doesn't contribute directly to lift requirements, though it indirectly does as it affects the amount of exposure protection you'll be carrying under with you. The standard answer is the wing has to do two things: 1. Compensate for the buoyancy change of suit compression and gas use and 2. float your rig without you in it - should you ever need to remove it for some reason.
There's a wing calculator link in the sticky at the top of this subforum , The "Ultimate" wing lift calculator that helps determine lift requirements based on gear configuration

Where you may run into lift issues with "only" 27 is if you plan on wearing thick neoprene (think 7mm farmer john) or a drysuit and plan to dive deep (deeper you go, the more buoyancy is lost from a wetsuit and therefore requires compensation) or you need a lot of weight (again, this is gonna be in thick wetsuits and drysuits) and want integrated weight on the BC.
Imagine a stainless steel BP/W that's maybe 10 -15 lb's negative when you figure in plate, reg, tank, misc negative things attached (aluminum bodied light), then hang 20 lb's of lead on it. Now you've got a BC that's 30 lbs negative. If you have to remove it for any reason, it's going down without you.

 

[chrpai]

I dive a 27lb BP/W. I have an AL plate and a Steel plate. It's all about weighting requirements which is very personal to you.

Personally I think you'd be very happy with even a Zeagle Express Tech with basic harness. If you go with a BP/W you'd probably be fine with an AL plate or a Steel plate. The steel would be better for salt water but you might not want the weight in your luggage.

Shoot me a PM if you ever want to have a phone convo to go over the finer points. Otherwise a dealer like Jim Laplenta would do the same for you.

 

[victorzamora]

Shoot me a PM if you ever want to have a phone convo to go over the finer points. Otherwise a dealer like Jim Laplenta would do the same for you.

Great idea. But beware. Ignore his opinions. They aren't fact.

By that, i mean listen to his reasons and his logic and formulate your own opinion. That's true for everyone. I don't want to hear a what if there's not a why. I also recommend against having an opinion unless you've got a good why. As Colliam alluded to, most of this is personal and none of this is universal.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk

 

[chrpai]

Great idea. But beware. Ignore his opinions. They aren't fact.

By that, i mean listen to his reasons and his logic and formulate your own opinion. That's true for everyone. I don't want to hear a what if there's not a why. I also recommend against having an opinion unless you've got a good why. As Colliam alluded to, most of this is personal and none of this is universal.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk

Um, why do you think I'd want to have a detailed conversation? Anyone can post an opinion in a blurb online. To explain the why and let him decide what he needs requires a dialog.

 

[ronscuba]

Well. Crap. I'm mildly interested in these BP/W setups now. I will only be diving lakes and tropical waters. Lakes only in the summer. How do I know if a 27lb wing works for me? I'm 5'5 and 140lbs.

I am now on the fence about buying a reg first though. That does seem a little more important.

---------- Post added August 21st, 2013 at 11:11 AM ----------

Colliam, you hit the nail on the head. I've always thought the BP/W was for more experienced divers.

Given your size and only diving warm water, the 27lb wing will be fine. You could go smaller if you wish. Properly weighted, you shouldn't have much air in your BC when diving warm water.

My suggestion on regulator 1st is based on my experience with rental regulators. Whose mouth did this thing go in before me ? How many dives since the last time it was serviced ? Why is this thing so much harder to breath than my own high quality regulator ? Wow, I really miss my custom molded regulator mouthpiece.

 

[victorzamora]

Um, why do you think I'd want to have a detailed conversation? Anyone can post an opinion in a blurb online. To explain the why and let him decide what he needs requires a dialog.

Chrpai: Having read enough of your posts to be able to say I've started figuring you out. I figured you weren't one to lecture. I figured you would be one to discuss, and give the "why" as I suggested. My point was using you as an example, but was really the way to approach figuring this out. As long as you have a "why" as to why you're doing what you're doing, it's hard to go wrong. The point I was trying to make was a universal one....you just happened to be the example.
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OP: As for reg vs bcd, that's up to you. I bought a package that had both when I first started (tax returns ) but I had thought about what I'd do. My LDS had a BCD that fit me well, but they just had ONE. I needed to buy a BCD first because on multiple occasions I had to wear a tiny one not clipped off, just so I could hold my tank and weights together and KIND of on me. I also knew what rental regs I liked best, and grabbed them first. They were ugly, but I tuned them and took care of them. But I had an atypical case. The two things to be said about regs first is that they're the most personal (they go in your mouth) AND they're your life support. You don't need a BCD, you don't need fins, you don't need a mask. You DO need air. But, my LDS had good rental regs I had my pick of, so it's dependent on the person.

As for what sized wing: I don't think a slightly oversized wing is a big deal. I don't think a slightly undersized wing is a big deal, but I'd rather it be oversized. If you'll be diving cold much at all, I'd go with a slightly bigger wing. Hog sells a 32# wing and Hollis sells a 38# wing. They're both deceptively small for the amount of lift they produce. I dove my Hollis S38 in cold water, warm water, wet and dry and never felt it had too much lift. Just a thought. Again, check the wing lift calculator and that'll give you a starting point. I also like an alu plate. You can always add weight plates, a weighted STA, weight on your cambands, weight on your harness, or weight on your weighbelt.....but you can't take weight off of a Stainless Steel backplate (besides major/permanent modifications).

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Your personal body size doesn't contribute directly to lift requirements, though it indirectly does as it affects the amount of exposure protection you'll be carrying under with you. The standard answer is the wing has to do two things: 1. Compensate for the buoyancy change of suit compression and gas use and 2. float your rig without you in it - should you ever need to remove it for some reason.
There's a wing calculator link in the sticky at the top of this subforum , The "Ultimate" wing lift calculator that helps determine lift requirements based on gear configuration

Where you may run into lift issues with "only" 27 is if you plan on wearing thick neoprene (think 7mm farmer john) or a drysuit and plan to dive deep (deeper you go, the more buoyancy is lost from a wetsuit and therefore requires compensation) or you need a lot of weight (again, this is gonna be in thick wetsuits and drysuits) and want integrated weight on the BC.
Imagine a stainless steel BP/W that's maybe 10 -15 lb's negative when you figure in plate, reg, tank, misc negative things attached (aluminum bodied light), then hang 20 lb's of lead on it. Now you've got a BC that's 30 lbs negative. If you have to remove it for any reason, it's going down without you.

Why would anyone hang 20 lbs of lead on a BPW? There is a thing called weight distribution and one primary point is NOT putting all your weight on/in one system.

If I saw anyone doing what you described I'd be the first one to point out that they had no idea what they were doing and they should not get in the water. In the case of some one needing 30 lbs of weight in a dry suit you would never put all your weight into one system. Even with an integrated BC.

With a BPW set up as you described I would do as I do now. My plate weighs 6 lbs, the steel 95 full about 8 lbs, reg maybe 3, can light 4 - 6 depending on which one I am using. That's 20 lbs or so. I have a 32 lb wing on that which will float it easily. If i have to remove it it's not going anywhere unless the wing fails. I need about 28 - 30 lbs in my drysuit with heavy undies. The other 8 - 10 lbs is going on a belt as that is what it takes to sink me with most of the air out of the suit. At no time is all the weight on the BC. Unless I'm diving wet then all I need is the steel 95.

Even with an integrated BC you don't put 10 lb in each pocket and 5 in each trim pocket if it has it. Doing that means if you lose one pocket there goes a 1/3 of your ballast. Not good. What you'd do is keep the trim pockets the same. Put maybe 4lbs in each integrated pocket so you could drop or lose one and still control your ascent, and the rest on a belt. Or put 7 in each pocket and 6 on the belt. Dropping the belt would then allow you to start to get positive and once you start it just keeps going. Or something along those lines. You never put all your weight in the BC unless all you need is less than 10 lbs.

Should you lose 1/2 of it (10 lbs) you can still control your ascent. But if all I needed was ten I'd put 3 in each trim pocket and 2 in each ditchable pocket.