"Allowed" to dive

[DeputyDan]

Some countries require a dm lead dive.
Saba is one.
There are several reasons for this ( some mentioned above) but another one is to provide employment opportunities in poorer areas.


All that being said your acquaintance is full of crap!

 

[AfterDark]

In the US only the slip and fall lawyers restrict divers and everyone else for that matter. Until we became sue happy here I dived wherever, whenever, w/ or w/o a buddy or a guide, with only my basic scuba diving cert. Then one day charters starting asking for a AOW cert. Why? Liability.
Your DM friend is a buffoon IMO. Think twice about diving with him.

 

[meagicano]

He was definitely a PADI DM and that's why he said other agencies are useless.

I don't plan to dive with him (ever)! I was at a dinner and after eating our conversation steered towards diving since I consider myself to be an avid and active diver. We were talking about u/w photography since I just bought a camera and I mentioned I was looking forward to spending a lot of time swimming around with a photographer friend in Bonaire. He basically said "well you won't have as much time as you like since you have to keep up with the guide".

Things basically unravelled from there.

 

[Crowley]

I agree a lot with with Devon Diver and Diver0001 who hit their respective nails quite firmly on the head.

Legality is a very broad issue and rules and regulations differ across the world. There are plenty of places where there is no "law" against renting gear and going diving, but for liability reasons, many dive centres are just not going to allow this - and this is not necessarily due to local law, rather it's shop policy: you can only rent gear if you dive with us, because we don't know who you are, and we don't know what you're going to do with our gear, and if you get into trouble, somebody's going to sue us. If you're well known to the dive centre as a safe and responsible diver, then they may well make an exception to this rule - I'd be quite happy to do so. In that respect, the DM in question is sort of correct - many places will, indeed, refuse to rent gear for a diver to use unsupervised.

There's nothing, on the other hand, to stop you buying your own gear and doing whatever the smeg you like with it.

The AOW certification, as has already been suggested, does not "allow" you to dive in overhead environments. Not at all. If you wish to do so, that's your choice, but there are also many places where you do not need some sort of "penetration" certification to dive in overhead environments. The number of people I guided on the wreck of the SS Thistlegorm in the Red Sea would otherwise have been limited to one or two, not several hundred. Some dive shops will insist on the wreck specialty certification prior to penetration. I think this is a bit silly unless the wreck involved specifically requires extra training to deal with - which in the case of the Thistlegorm, it doesn't. On the other hand, no way, not ever, no how, would I have allowed a customer to dive there unguided unless I knew they had extensive prior experience there - which would be former instructors and guides from the region only, wreck spec. or not!

Sounds like the OP encountered a particularly cynical and unhappy DM, who may indeed have had a point when it comes to renting equipment from a dive centre, but is just generally wrong in several other respects.

Cheers

C.

 

[elan]

If he is one of those "The DMs" that's understandable. I have seen quite a few who cannot even establish neutral buoyancy and they only dive down south but they like telling you how to dive the dry suit I donno if this is a canadian feature or that's everywhere.

He was definitely a PADI DM and that's why he said other agencies are useless.

I don't plan to dive with him (ever)! I was at a dinner and after eating our conversation steered towards diving since I consider myself to be an avid and active diver. We were talking about u/w photography since I just bought a camera and I mentioned I was looking forward to spending a lot of time swimming around with a photographer friend in Bonaire. He basically said "well you won't have as much time as you like since you have to keep up with the guide".

Things basically unravelled from there.

 

[dfx]

Being in Canada potentially he is referring to the CMAS/FFFESSM system.

Interesting point. The province of Quebec has the FQAS, which does indeed put some very legal restrictions on what you can and cannot do as a diver. I don't think it requires use of a divemaster though, and I'm not aware of any such equivalent in Ontario.

 

[Max Speed]

I don't know what I would do if I could never go diving in France....

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Colliam7]

Basically - he told me that as an AOW it wasn't "legal" for me to dive without DM supervision and that many places would refuse to rent me gear without either supervision or a DM cert.

As several have said, the AOW comment is absurd. Ignore it (no, you are not being obstinate). The ‘many places’ comment may be partially true – I certainly have not had the chance to dive in every country in the western hemisphere, so I cannot categorically challenge the statement. ‘Many’ seems unlikely, but I presume there may be one / some countries / operations where what he said is partially accurate. I wouldn’t worry about it. There are plenty of dive destinations in the Caribbean where his comments have absolutely no basis in fact.

Some countries require a dm lead dive. Saba is one. There are several reasons for this (some mentioned above) but another one is to provide employment opportunities in poorer areas.

I was in Dominica in June and learned that (most / all) boat dives are DM-led. However, unlimited independent shore diving is allowed (at least from one op).

In addition to the employment initiative (which is quite understandable in a number of Caribbean countries) I also suspect there are legitimate concerns about protecting reef systems (also very understandable), and possibly, even diver safety. In Dominica, for example, a particular point was repeatedly made about the depth of the water, just a 100 yards offshore (>2500 feet). You can drown in <10 feet of water, so depth, per se, isn&#8217;t necessarily the issue. But, if you lose buoyancy in 2000 feet of water, body recovery may be more challenging. J

In any event, ignore what was said by this person. He may be a DM, in which case he already has AOW, but he appears to have reached his MFCT (maximum fecal containment threshold).

The province of Quebec has the FQAS, which does indeed put some very legal restrictions on what you can and cannot do as a diver.

Good point. And, if he does happen to be from Quebec, more than a few of my Canadian friends (not from Quebec) would say, 'That explains it, eh. He is simply a member of the Amalgamated Supercilliously Scathing Hotshots Of Lower Egypt.'

 

[jcaplins]

Basically - he told me that as an AOW it wasn't "legal" for me to dive without DM supervision and that many places would refuse to rent me gear without either supervision or a DM cert.

Not responding to the "legal" part, but to the supervision part... I found this little gem on the NAUI website the other day regarding master diver cert (my emphasis in italics/red):

"Upon successful completion of this course, graduates are considered competent to engage in open water diving activities without supervision, provided the diving activities and the areas dived approximate those of training."

My thought was "whaaaaat?"

ref:
NAUI Master Scuba Diver

 

[chrisch]

I don't know what I would do if I could never go diving in France....

The "legal" thing is wrong in respect of France. The system there is restricted by the insurance that is generally bought through the governing body. There is no actual state law as such. So anyone can dive there, the issue only comes up when dealing with a dive centre (most are affiliated to the governing body so have it's insurance).

France has some excellent diving - the WW2 wrecks in Normandy for example. Of great historic importance to our US friends (who will all receive a very warm welcome there). Also some of the best cave diving in Europe. The Med. isn't so great, but has some good wreck dives in the 130-160 foot range for those suitably qualified.