Drop the freaking weights!

[Bob DBF]

I have to think deceased divers found with weight belts didn't not ditch them due to cost, but instead realizing too late they should have, if there was even a chance to realize that (most medical related deaths don't seem to give you the option). We were taught ditching weights is a last resort (very very last resort if you aren't on the surface). It is difficult to realize the extent of the emergency if it is now 'last resort' or think there is still something you can do, and then you can't really rethink the decision after you are dead.

I agree that ditching weight at depth should not be your first thought, but how much time did the instructor discussing the reasons for, and when you should drop the belt? By emphasizing not dropping the belt on the surface and basically never dropping at depth, it insures the student will not drop the belt because they never have a clear idea when, so they wait till its too late.

One thing about long classes is that there is time to work out your threshold to drop while also having adult supervision available.

As for medical related deaths, the same reasoning follows, some may also wait too long.

Last, but not least, how often do you actually drop the belt for practice?



Bob
---------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I agree that ditching weight at depth should not be your first thought, but how much time did the instructor discussing the reasons for, and when you should drop the belt? By emphasizing not dropping the belt on the surface and basically never dropping at depth, it insures the student will not drop the belt because they never have a clear idea when, so they wait till its too late.

One thing about long classes is that there is time to work out your threshold to drop while also having adult supervision available.

As for medical related deaths, the same reasoning follows, some may also wait too long.

Last, but not least, how often do you actually drop the belt for practice?



Bob
---------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

I don't know that training agencies ALLOW ditching lead and performing a buoyant ascent as a training exercise. However, last weekend I was teaching my daughter this exact skill.

I posted this video elsewhere, but if you skip to 1 minute, I drop my weight belt and show her an ascent and then she does it. I am teaching her to flare out and lay on her back, because I feel this is a way to control the ascent rate in an emergency after an intentional ditch and also in a situation where the weight belt might be accidentally lost.

Of course, we are in warm water, using light weight belts (I think they are both 8 lbs or so), but she gets the idea I think. I want her to be very willing to ditch the lead, if the time comes.

[video=youtube;NmeQmWZ_tzY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmeQmWZ_tzY&feature=share&list=UU1utDku8vJ RJYgBZImLyLJQ[/video]

 

[Storker]

I find it inconceivable (and in poor taste) so suggest frugality had anything to do with the ditching option not being exercised.

I don't. I don't find it in poor taste at all.
I believe it's simple human psychology and that most of us might fall into that trap if we don't think through things in advance.

I guess that what you're thinking of is a situation where the crap hits the AC system loudly, quickly and clearly. Now imagine a slowly escalating emergency. In the initial stages, ditching weights is an option, you have plenty of time and air to do so comfortably, but, hey, it's not an emergency, right? It's just a moderate problem, and those weights cost money. You don't want to over-react, do you? The problem escalates a bit, but you still think you can handle it. And then, when you have a full-size emergency screaming in your face, either you don't think about ditching weights because you're in panic, or you might not be able to ditch them for some physical reason. Ding, we have a fatality.

Over here, people have drowned because they didn't want to ditch their catch bag full of scallops. Not because they were so stingy that they valued their catch over their life, but probably because they thought of it too late.

 

[Skittl1321]

I agree that ditching weight at depth should not be your first thought, but how much time did the instructor discussing the reasons for, and when you should drop the belt?

Maybe about 3 minutes of class... It was basically "if you have no other options, you can drop your weights and make a buoyant ascent". Thing is, if you are supposed to try everything else first- by the time your "try to fix the problem"; "do a CESA"; - it seems you are out of time to drop your weights.

In the pool we did practice taking our weights out of the pockets underwater; I assume that was to mimic dropping them. The pool wouldn't let us drop them though. At depth, I don't think the risk of injury is worth the practice: there is a reason it is last resort, but still, better to be injured and maybe fixable at the surface than dead at the bottom.

Last, but not least, how often do you actually drop the belt for practice?

This isn't a skill on my practice list (I've also never worn a weight belt, I'm a bit nervous about that coming up for vacation diving). OW checkouts, we did practice removing weights on the surface and handing them to the instructor to mock ditching them, but with 2-5 feet visibility they asked us to not actually drop them.

From what I've learned on this thread, it sounds like if I ever have an OOA, it's just a good idea to drop them when I get to the surface- in a just in case sort of thing; that way there is less worry about being able to orally inflate and stay buoyant. I still really don't have any idea when to ditch them at depth- I mean, if you see that light at then end of the tunnel coming nearer? How do you know you're reached the point where there is nothing left to try? When to drop weights is not something that was well covered in training.

 

[boulderjohn]

Maybe about 3 minutes of class... It was basically "if you have no other options, you can drop your weights and make a buoyant ascent". Thing is, if you are supposed to try everything else first- by the time your "try to fix the problem"; "do a CESA"; - it seems you are out of time to drop your weights.

You have a lot more time than you think. The feeling that you don't have time to think of the best solution is what leads to bad decisions.

If you are out of air and don't see a buddy near enough to share air, then you begin a CESA. If during your attempt to do the CESA you become concerned that you will not make it, you drop your weights. Since you are already attempting the CESA and are on your way up, there is actually no time lost. If you aren't sure, drop the weights--no harm in that, and better safe than sorry.

 

[Croomrider]

DD, there sure are a lot of leaks in you SPG and reg! :chuckle:

Mike

 

[phoenix31tt]

If you aren't sure, drop the weights--no harm in that, and better safe than sorry.

I think she was implying that they may be harm in that... as dropping weights means a bouyant ascent (possibly uncontrolled)... so in an unsure moment a diver would prefer not to ditch...

and as it's currently taught... that would be indeed what a normal diver would do.. when unsure don't ditch.. ditch only if you know its last resort.. i'm actually not sure where i stand on the issue or when I would consider ditching what little weight i have...

 

[nimoh]

I think she was implying that they may be harm in that... as dropping weights means a bouyant ascent (possibly uncontrolled)... so in an unsure moment a diver would prefer not to ditch...

and as it's currently taught... that would be indeed what a normal diver would do.. when unsure don't ditch.. ditch only if you know its last resort.. i'm actually not sure where i stand on the issue or when I would consider ditching what little weight i have...

sort of depends on how much weight you are ditching, and if you are properly weighted to begin with...a buoyant ascent doesn't necessarily have to be a rapid ascent (as shown in dumpsterDiver's video)

 

[flots am]

This isn't a skill on my practice list (I've also never worn a weight belt, I'm a bit nervous about that coming up for vacation diving). OW checkouts, we did practice removing weights on the surface and handing them to the instructor to mock ditching them, but with 2-5 feet visibility they asked us to not actually drop them.

You need to actually drop your weights to make sure you can actually do it.

I discovered, for example that my weight harness pockets weren't ditchable due to a manufacturing defect that I hadn't noticed until I tried to ditch them.

FWIW, the skills you're most nervous about are exactly the skills you need to practice until they're boring and you can do them with no anxiety.

From what I've learned on this thread, it sounds like if I ever have an OOA, it's just a good idea to drop them when I get to the surface- in a just in case sort of thing; that way there is less worry about being able to orally inflate and stay buoyant. I still really don't have any idea when to ditch them at depth- I mean, if you see that light at then end of the tunnel coming nearer? How do you know you're reached the point where there is nothing left to try? When to drop weights is not something that was well covered in training.

You should drop weights on the surface any time you think "Maybe I should drop my weights". That guarantees that you'll stay on the surface and won't sink back under and drown.

I still really don't have any idea when to ditch them at depth- I mean, if you see that light at then end of the tunnel coming nearer? How do you know you're reached the point where there is nothing left to try?

Open Water divers have a limited number of skills to perform in any particular situation (share air and ascend or ascend by yourself). If you're not sharing air and there's any question in your mind about whether your ascent will be successful, ditch your weights.

This is also useful in cases where you jump off the boat and can't breathe or inflate your BC. This can happen for example, if you jump off the boat over-weighted with no air in your BC and your tank turned off. (I know it sounds like a CF, but I've actually seen it).

Don't wait for "the light at the end of the tunnel." You probably won't have enough time left.

Also remember that ditching your weights doesn't send them to another world. They just land on the bottom and someone can go get them for you. If they're not retrievable, even an entire set of weights for a drysuit isn't much more expensive than a boat ride.

 

[Skittl1321]

You need to actually drop your weights to make sure you can actually do it.

How is dropping them any different from just taking them out of the pockets? I mean, I practiced removing them from my body. Letting go doesn't seem any different. Since I rent BCs, I make sure that I can easily release the weight from whichever BC I have that day.

You should drop weights on the surface any time you think "Maybe I should drop my weights". That guarantees that you'll stay on the surface and won't sink back under and drown.

Yep, this thread has definitely taught me that on the surface, when in doubt, just drop them.