Teen fatality - Skaneateles Lake, New York

[Steve_C]

One diver's regulator fell off her mouthpiece, leaving her with nothing but a mouthpiece and no air. Instead of going to her buddy - who was right there - she bolted off to the surface.

Had exactly the same problem happen with an instabuddy on her first post cert dive. She got her cert in MN in a lake. We were at 50 ft in the ocean a month later and I was a stranger but in lead with her and her mother. Mouthpiece came off. She went for her spare reg but it was not where she expected to find it since it was in her pocket (rental gear) and not on her chest. I was about 8-10 ft away. She shot over to me and gave the OOA signal. Gave her my spare. Let her calm down. Located her spare and gave it to her. Once she was completely ok, we completed the dive with me staying close to her in case of another failure. Actually I did not have to worry about that. She was in remora mode.

So some of them are trained well and do react perfectly.

During the SI I explained that you can still breath off the reg and captain fixed her reg mouthpiece.

Mouth pieces coming off is a common problem that students should have stressed more. I know I had one come off in the first 20 dives I did.

As an aside I will comment that I was not a DM on this six pack. But I had let the daughter and equally newly trained mother I was buddying with quietly know that I was a DM. I feel that encourages them to come to me if there is an issue under water and helps with the first dive jitters. I had the option of going solo but felt that they could benefit from somebody with them and it turned out I was right.

 

[Beiji]

What is the max. depth at Skaneateles? What are conditions like this time if year?

As rhwestfall said, the max is around 300 feet. It's a fairly easy lake to dive. The bottom slopes gradually. I was in on Saturday, and the temp was 57º F, well above the thermocline. In this lake, the thermocline moves around a lot, and sometimes there is more than one. It's possible that even at 60 ft they were above the thermocline. I didn't take much notice of the vis on Saturday, but when I dove there October 11, the vis was around 10 - 15 ft, which is not very good for this lake.

 

[rhwestfall]

but what is your perspective of the lake if we take away 190-490 of your dives?

 

[boulderjohn]

In most of the diving we do in Colorado, we never get the kind of visibility reported, and the temperatures are similar. The lake may be 300 feet deep, but if it has a sloping bottom. I assume you can have a reasonably shallow hard bottom beneath you.

In comparison with what we have here, I sure wish I had something like that lake near us for our OW classes, and I would not hesitate to have new divers in it.

 

[rhwestfall]

but you are an instructor (formally trained as such), and have a trained staff you likely were involved in selecting aiding you....

how would you respond to a newly minted diver asking you no your thoughts of him diving there with a non-pro?

 

[Beiji]

but what is your perspective of the lake if we take away 190-490 of your dives?

Well, 23 of my first 28 dives were in Skaneateles, as well as many of them since, and the early ones were all off of a boat where there was almost always an instructor as well as a DM on board who would ask the newer divers to check that their air was on and that there was air in their BC before they splashed. They would almost surely catch someone putting their gear together incorrectly or doing something unsafe on the boat. So, that made me pretty comfortable. There was no pressure to go deep or stay long but an emphasis on safety and comfort. As far as I know, the young man who died and his two buddies are not a part of this group with whom I made my first dives.

I would say that the lake can be either benign (relatively, given that you are breathing underwater) or full of hazards depending on your training, experience, perspective, and buddies.

---------- Post added October 29th, 2013 at 07:03 PM ----------

but you are an instructor (formally trained as such), and have a trained staff you likely were involved in selecting aiding you....

how would you respond to a newly minted diver asking you no your thoughts of him diving there with a non-pro?

This lake is used all the time for OW training/checkout dives. Boulder John is right about the bottom. It's mucky, but shallow.

 

[rhwestfall]

Well, 23 of my first 28 dives were in Skaneateles, as well as many of them since, and the early ones were all off of a boat where there was almost always an instructor as well as a DM on board who would ask the newer divers to check that their air was on and that there was air in their BC before they splashed. They would almost surely catch someone putting their gear together incorrectly or doing something unsafe on the boat. So, that made me pretty comfortable. There was no pressure to go deep or stay long but an emphasis on safety and comfort. As far as I know, the young man who died and his two buddies are not a part of this group with whom I made my first dives.

I would say that the lake can be either benign (relatively, given that you are breathing underwater) or full of hazards depending on your training, experience, perspective, and buddies.

emphasis added.... Absolutely!

 

[boulderjohn]

but you are an instructor (formally trained as such), and have a trained staff you likely were involved in selecting aiding you....

how would you respond to a newly minted diver asking you no your thoughts of him diving there with a non-pro?

I think I answered that above. I would have no concerns. I think a student who has successfully completed a well-taught class in a similar environment should be able to plan and execute a dive there.

If a diver panics and bolts to the surface, then we would have to consider why that happened, and we have no clue offered in this thread. I know someone who did that, and it turned out she had had a heart attack and thought she was getting no air from her regulator. That is unlikely with a 16-year old. Going through all possible scenarios, the one that concerns me would be one in in which he exhibited a tendency to bolt like that during the OW class. If so, then he should not have been certified. We have absolutely no inkling of evidence that that was the case, however, so I am not suggesting that.

The bottom line is that I don't think the lake was beyond the ability of someone of any diving level who was properly prepared for it. If he had been trained solely in a resort area and then been in that water with that equipment for the first time in his life without a proper orientation, then I would be concerned, but we have no indication that that was the case, either.

 

[Beiji]

I read in a news report that he had done several dives at Alexandria Bay, and they were probably at the Islander, a popular wreck for OW training/checkouts. It's about 50 ft to the bottom and pretty flat there. Because it's in the St. Lawrence River, there's no thermocline.

 

[rhwestfall]

I'm well familiar with the St. Lawrence. Those statements are heading toward this being a "trust me" dive....