Divers dying every lobster opening. This has to stop!

[fnfalman]

I was taught to ditch weight both underwater and at the surface. I'm fairly certain that these activities were covered in PADI OW class.

It's not the agency's or instructor's fault if the divers were to forget skills.

 

[drrich2]

Scubatude:

This is where you're losing people:

...new rules or laws for...

Richard.

 

[pensacolaracer]

WOW. I am stunned and saddened at the responses to this topic. In every community I have ever been involved with, including law enforcement, competitive shooting, martial arts, flying and motorcycles, safety was a concern of the entire community. When even one death occurred we would examine the circumstances, pinpoint the primary cause and work to eliminate that cause in the future. Sometimes that meant re-training for law enforcement, or new checklists or procedures for flying, new rules or laws for motorcycles riders. I am shocked that divers are not only passive about deaths within our community, but vocal about their right to do nothing and enjoy the "freedom" to die diving if they wish.

As a diver I am ashamed and starting to see why the agencies don't care. It is because we do not ask them to care. We are so fast to point a finger at this agency or that agency for not having standards they we feel are up to par, but when a incident occurs it is clearly the divers fault. As a scuba educator I am saddened that this type of behavior is tolerated. This thread is full of people who know what the problem is and won't lift a finger to solve it.

Each and every person has a right to their opinion. I am thankful to all who posted and respect all the opinions and views expressed.

Right on!!! I think the very next lobster related death there is, the ENTIRE lobster hunting community should be FORCED into a safety stand down until they can all receive some mandatory additional training.

Maybe a HUGE teleconference or even several of them to cover the time zones.

Let me know what the cost would be for that. And if you decide to organize and pay for it, I'll even chip in a couple of bucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Akimbo beat me to it, but up here in Norcal we lose about eight abalone freedivers a year on average, for a stupid snail no less.
Lobster fever is even worse. Lobsters scram when you try and grab them, abalone sit still but clamp down hard on a rock, and you have to freedive to get them.
Both have their challenges, but having common sense shouldn't be one of the challenges.
As far as preventing deaths, good luck. The only way would be to shut it down completely and that wouldn't be fair to the 99% of other responsible and sensible divers.

 

[Oldbear]

I am not into Lobster hunting...but evidentially there are quite a few divers who are. We hear about the ones who have mishaps, but how many dive correctly and follow their training? Five deaths out of ??? divers total.

I think Lynne said it best, you can correct ignorance but not arrogance. "Stupid Hurts"...and in this case their families.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

It wouldn't be fair to the ones who wind up killing themselves, either. Substituting your own judgment for theirs--even if theirs is clearly lacking--requires an extreme lack of respect for them as human beings.

Tell them all whatever you want, OP, but I usually see these "something must be done/how can we tolerate a system that allows this to happen/won't someone ​please think of the children!?" rants as aimed at a more...coercive...approach to protecting people from themselves. I loathe paternalism...judging by some of the other reactions posted here, I'm not alone in that sentiment.

 

[Scubatude]

Do you feel the same about helmet laws? Seatbelt laws? Speed limits? The legal responsibility of bartenders to stop serving someone who has too much? Do you believe that people should not speak up if they see that same person try to get behind the wheel of a car. How about issuing a one time drivers license without ever retesting to prove competency regardless of age? I am just curious if these same attitudes apply to all aspects of our lives, or is it just diving you hold sacred with an every man for himself attitude?

 

[BUDMANOK]

How about issuing a one time drivers license without ever retesting to prove competency regardless of age?

I guess you are not aware but not every state retest for age.

Do you feel the same about helmet laws? Seatbelt laws?

Again not required everywhere. In this case you are only harming yourself.

The legal responsibility of bartenders to stop serving someone who has too much? Do you believe that people should not speak up if they see that same person try to get behind the wheel of a car.

totally different set of laws because now you have the real possibility of harming other people.

 

[Rhone Man]

Well, I wouldn't put it quite as aggressively as some people have in this thread, but ultimately my feelings are similar: I don't want to have my personal freedoms (along with everyone else's) hemmed in to try and protect the 1% who are idiots from themselves. We already have way too many laws and regulations that do that, and we don't need any more.

I am reminded of a case I got involved in at a Coroner's inquest many years ago. Tragic story - young boy managed to strangle himself on the cords that hang down to control the drapes. The distraught mother announced she was going to campaign for new laws to make sure that nothing like this could ever happen again. And I thought to myself: "nothing like this has ever happened before in English legal history, and is not likely to ever recur. It was a freak, freak accident - we don't need to over react like a scalded cat every time someone dies, and create pointless laws and regulations that will last for all eternity." But of course, like everyone else, I said nothing.

---------- Post added October 4th, 2014 at 07:18 AM ----------

Do you feel the same about helmet laws? Seatbelt laws? Speed limits? The legal responsibility of bartenders to stop serving someone who has too much? Do you believe that people should not speak up if they see that same person try to get behind the wheel of a car. How about issuing a one time drivers license without ever retesting to prove competency regardless of age? I am just curious if these same attitudes apply to all aspects of our lives, or is it just diving you hold sacred with an every man for himself attitude?

Helmet laws and seatbelt laws are a little bit different, because that is about saving young people from themselves until they are older and wiser. We were all young and dumb once. But over-eager middle aged divers who are hopelessly out of shape probably are about as smart as they will ever get. Drink drive laws and age testing are not a good comparison, because the primary risk is harm to others.

I'd react the same way if someone proposed a law mandating cardiograms before someone took up jogging above the age of 50. Might save lives, but still too much of an intrusion into my personal space.

 

[flots am]

WOW. I am stunned and saddened at the responses to this topic. In every community I have ever been involved with, including law enforcement, competitive shooting, martial arts, flying and motorcycles, safety was a concern of the entire community. When even one death occurred we would examine the circumstances, pinpoint the primary cause and work to eliminate that cause in the future. Sometimes that meant re-training for law enforcement, or new checklists or procedures for flying, new rules or laws for motorcycles riders. I am shocked that divers are not only passive about deaths within our community, but vocal about their right to do nothing and enjoy the "freedom" to die diving if they wish.

The problem is that outside of class or the dive boat, people do not want anybody's opinion and regular divers have no authority.

Over the years I have received dirty looks and verbal rebukes from certified divers for mentioning things like:

• Your hoses are too short because your tank is mounted backwards and your regulator is upside down (shore diver. still on shore an hour later with a wrench)
• Your computer is fine. It's trying to tell you that you might die if you do another dive. (almost did die)
• I don't think that boat will really hold all these people (it didn't)

In class or when working on the dive boat, I can (try to) stop people from doing stupid things because if they don't listen, I can boot them out. However as a regular diver on someone else's boat or a shore dive, I have no authority to make anybody do or not do anything, no matter how stupid

It's not that divers don't care, and nobody likes to see someone else die or take a really huge risk, but there isn't much that can be done.

With lifetime certification, you can't fix stupid.

flots.