Cave Training and Etiquette Real or Imaginary?

[karstdvr]

should they not make it a point to read these forums though? We elect them to help lead the people, and this is where the people are talking. Granted on the CDS side Forrest is heavily involved with the CDF so not much goes through the cracks with him, and Jim has been very active as well. NACD side has Neto on here primarily very rarely on CDF anymore, but MAG is on there a decent amount, but unless you pay attention to the guys on the board, with the exception of Neto due to his posting on here, Forrest because everyone knows who he is and has for the last 40 some odd years, and Jim through various reasons, very few people have any idea who any of the other board members are and I think that is part of the problem, we don't see them diving often, and they aren't making themselves known, I understand there are limitations to what they can post because they are board members, but they can poke their heads in every once in a while and let us know they are actually listening on a day to day basis instead of only when formal motions are brought up.

Each board has to decide how much they want to use social media. When I chaired the CDS board for two years I found the forums had their place, and was a great way to communicate,but it had its limits. There is a core group of people that use and like the forums, but you'd be surprised that, for example CDS membership, a very small number actually see these forums. To illustrate when the NACD had some problems a couple years ago, everyone on the forums said that was the end of the organization. In reality the organization is still around with not a huge change in membership, which showed the negativity toward the NACD on the forums was pretty isolated. The ideal way to see the organizations personalities is to attend their board members, because it is unlikely to will catch them diving frequently enough at sites you are at simultaneously. I have always found board members are very approachable by phone or email, and you have some valid concerns that deserve an audience.

 

[The Chairman]

everyone on the forums said that was the end of the organization.

Except here on SB. We were very proactive in squashing the NACD bash-a-thon back then and still support it to this day.

It's all about search engines. We are the best way to reach members and non-members alike. We have some of the strongest SEOs in the industry, and we're not afraid to use them.

 

[GDI]

[GOOGLE][/GOOGLE]The NACD has its members fourm (Activity Stream - NACD Members) however using social media is a good way to get a pulse to what is happening. CDF, TDS and of course SB all has information which can be mined and if used correctly will benefit the organization and it's respective members as well as the cave community. This thread alone has yielded some good feedback

 

[ucfdiver]

Each board has to decide how much they want to use social media. When I chaired the CDS board for two years I found the forums had their place, and was a great way to communicate,but it had its limits. There is a core group of people that use and like the forums, but you'd be surprised that, for example CDS membership, a very small number actually see these forums. To illustrate when the NACD had some problems a couple years ago, everyone on the forums said that was the end of the organization. In reality the organization is still around with not a huge change in membership, which showed the negativity toward the NACD on the forums was pretty isolated. The ideal way to see the organizations personalities is to attend their board members, because it is unlikely to will catch them diving frequently enough at sites you are at simultaneously. I have always found board members are very approachable by phone or email, and you have some valid concerns that deserve an audience.

How many members does the NACD actually have? What motivates people to join? I don't think I know of many members first hand. Not saying that to be snarky, I just don't know of anyone who joined.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Well, there's me
I'm not in a position to really participate in any of the NACD activities (time & distance), but I joined because I want to support safe caving in some small way and believe the NACD is the best bang for the buck...
Rick

How many members does the NACD actually have? What motivates people to join? I don't think I know of many members first hand. Not saying that to be snarky, I just don't know of anyone who joined.

 

[TSandM]

Peter and I joined, mostly because we do sometimes dive the Florida caves, and wanted to give back in some way.

 

[ajduplessis]

.......................
My last dive at ginnie... Two divers at Hill 400, both on CCR. One of them with both dangling backup lights, lit. One dragging 6' of line from his reel in his right drysuit pocket and his buddy dragging all 7' of his bailout reg hose behind him. That's just one dive out of 100.

....and you did the right thing and reported these incidents. Correct????

 

[karstdvr]

The NACD has its members fourm (Activity Stream - NACD Members) however using social media is a good way to get a pulse to what is happening. CDF, TDS and of course SB all has information which can be mined and if used correctly will benefit the organization and it's respective members as well as the cave community. This thread alone has yielded some good feedback

I don't doubt that you have some good feedback on this forum and other places too,but the real important thing to remember is that this represents a very small % of your membership, and cave divers in general. The only way you will know what the membership thinks is contact them directly,but statisitically I found you will only get 30% responding,but PLEASE don't consider these forums the thoughts of cave divers in general or your membership specifically. One state agency in Florida will get two or three complaints, and assume this is the feeling of all the users, and will respond, without realizing this is a huge minority and a response wasn't needed, or worse yet disenfranchises the majority. There is a core group that use these forums, as noted we are at post #4XX, and with probably several thousand views, but it is the same people, and more likely if members who don't use the forums now, probably will never , despite discussions like this.

---------- Post added April 10th, 2015 at 06:18 AM ----------

How many members does the NACD actually have? What motivates people to join? I don't think I know of many members first hand..

I am a member of the NACD, and CDS, have been for over 20 years, and will continue to be. Will both agencies have problems again now and in the future...yes, heck people think the scandals now are awful,but they are nothing to some a couple decades ago (heck the CDS never would have been formed if it wasn't for the NACD throwing out Sheck). So what. These organizations are important because they are looked to provide what the profit agencies don't provide, also if a governmental agency has an issue and needs to contact a cave diving group, they have a long established history, and they are contacted. For example when Eagles Nest was at risk of closure due to that tragic accident, they had a history with working with the local authorities, stepped forward, and averted closure. People like to attack the agencies, until something like the above occurred, and then everyone was singing songs of praise. But these organizations can't function without support, and we need them.

---------- Post added April 10th, 2015 at 06:54 AM ----------

It's all about search engines. We are the best way to reach members and non-members alike. We have some of the strongest SEOs in the industry, and we're not afraid to use them.

You are probably right,but I still stand with there is a core group that is small finite number that represents a small % of interested parties. In cave diving forums there is small number that really look to gain information, matter of fact the lack of information is what has repelled them from being a larger active group. Frequently there are good threads with an exchange of information,but the long threads that get a lot of views are ones that get contentious and drama filled. Remember the old Tech-list, it was hugely popular because it was like WWF wrestling, it was GI3 versus the world, with scathing comments-it ceased to be about tech diving. Scubaboard does a great job containing discussion to the relevant,but the forums can't be considered a representative voice of cave diving, just a discussion by a few that use forums as a means.

 

[kensuf]

should they not make it a point to read these forums though? We elect them to help lead the people, and this is where the people are talking. Granted on the CDS side Forrest is heavily involved with the CDF so not much goes through the cracks with him, and Jim has been very active as well. NACD side has Neto on here primarily very rarely on CDF anymore, but MAG is on there a decent amount, but unless you pay attention to the guys on the board, with the exception of Neto due to his posting on here, Forrest because everyone knows who he is and has for the last 40 some odd years, and Jim through various reasons, very few people have any idea who any of the other board members are and I think that is part of the problem, we don't see them diving often, and they aren't making themselves known, I understand there are limitations to what they can post because they are board members, but they can poke their heads in every once in a while and let us know they are actually listening on a day to day basis instead of only when formal motions are brought up.

You do realize that the current sitting president of the NACD started this thread, right?

---------- Post added April 10th, 2015 at 08:38 AM ----------

How many members does the NACD actually have? What motivates people to join? I don't think I know of many members first hand. Not saying that to be snarky, I just don't know of anyone who joined.

I rejoined the NACD for the first time in over a decade because of Rick.

 

[nakatomi]

....and you did the right thing and reported these incidents. Correct????

Who the heck would he report dangling gear to?

If Peter sees someone with dangly backup lights and a dangling reg and it may damage the cave or endanger the divers, he should go tell those people about it. Preferably in the water, when he sees it, so they can fix it right away.

There's no use bringing it up on the forums, it's not like we can fix it for them.