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Cave Training and Etiquette Real or Imaginary?

Discussion in 'Cave Diving' started by GDI, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. karstdvr

    karstdvr Solo Diver

    # of Dives:
    Location: South GA
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    By cave access you are referring to purchasing property? If so, this became cost prohibitive when real estate prices went psycho in Florida. For example I found 25 acres for sale near High Springs,and of that 3 acres were completely unusable because of a deep sink. The owner wanted 10k per acre, which was ridiculous, and he would subdivide the acreage I wanted, but he wanted 10k per acre-this is a sink into a really cool system, but only divable during dry periods, not worth the money. The cave agencies can open new sites and just importantly maintain access. As far as maintaining access they came to the rescue with the possible loss of Eagles Nest. Getting new access can be done with working with landowners. I've been successful in opening a few sites, and even having the owner one agree to not arrest anyone if they came in by boat. Just takes some dedicated people to spend the time to open up news sites, which the agencies are quite capable of.
    .

    ---------- Post added April 11th, 2015 at 01:48 PM ----------

    There once was a time the CDS did institutes for instruction on a regular basis in Mexico, plus they have provided Spanish translated training material. I have to credit to the CDS in that they hold a Midwest workshop.
     
  2. PfcAJ

    PfcAJ Orca

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: St Petersburg, Fl
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    It would be real nice if the NACD/CDS worked on access to Bonnet....
     
  3. Superlyte27

    Superlyte27 Cave Instructor

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: Florida
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    It would be a neat trick trying to get someone arrested for coming by boat. The water ain't your land.
     
  4. _Slacker_

    _Slacker_ Solo Diver

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    No I think access is access. I don't care who owns it. I don't think cave divers care if it is public, commercial, or private. Of course there will be complaints about the hours, the price or restrictions, but some access is always better than no access at all which is what we have a many sites both public and private.

    While the arrest would be absurd, around here there are shots fired. Ask Colin how he feels about arguing water rights with bullets flying overhead.
     
  5. karstdvr

    karstdvr Solo Diver

    # of Dives:
    Location: South GA
    1,853
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    The NFSA has been working on that. If you read the transcript on the current management plan I got it moved off the closed list, to the meet certain requirements. It will cost quite a few $$$ for a system only good for small windows of opportunity. AJ, will need some help with fund raising, you up for it?

    ---------- Post added April 12th, 2015 at 06:08 AM ----------

    I agree with your comments. I have spent an inordinate amount of time getting some sites open individually or with a dedicated group, and it definitely is a labor of love. The problem often times is the average cave diver feels their access to a site is an entitlement, and their right, and really forget that it is a privilege , plus someone has worked hard in the past to secure that access or maintain it. We got one site open with a lot of negotiation with the owner, and the owner decided they wanted a guide system. Very little appreciation that we got the system open for any access since it had been closed for 15 years, but an echo of comments, "I am a full cave diver and I don't need anybody holding my hand"-sorry this is what the owner wanted. The other problem is cave divers have developed a reputation of pretty poor cave conservation, and getting access from a land owner can be hard if they think their cave will not be cared for.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2015
    kensuf likes this.
  6. kensuf

    kensuf Cave Instructor

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    Bonnet is a neat place. Let me know how I can help with getting it open. I'm all thumbs when it comes to carpentry, but I can haul lumber and I'm willing to donate the proceeds from my next couple of classes.
     
  7. PfcAJ

    PfcAJ Orca

    # of Dives: 5,000 - ∞
    Location: St Petersburg, Fl
    7,506
    6,073
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    Im no stranger to fundraising, Kelly. Give me a target dollar amount, the beneficiary, what the money is to be used for, a funding completion date and a completion date for whatever were doing with the money.
     
    kensuf likes this.
  8. karstdvr

    karstdvr Solo Diver

    # of Dives:
    Location: South GA
    1,853
    624
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    PM sent
     
  9. kensuf

    kensuf Cave Instructor

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    So back to the topic of this thread..

    I just wrapped up a full cave course. The student learned proper etiquette. So it's still being taught.

    and spending time underwater in the aquifer sure beats spending time above water reading about cave drama.
     
  10. bada3003

    bada3003 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Indiana
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    Actually, by your reasoning you can potentially do more harm than good. Even though well-intentioned. Samples don't necessarily need to be large (depends on the distribution of the population) but they have to be random. This is one of the cases where common sense reasoning -- pieces of information gathered may not help but cannot hurt -- can be wrong. What karstdvr points out should be taken to heart.

    If you are really interested in learning about the opinion of NACD members (by "really" I don't question your sincerity but whether you're prepared to put hard resources behind it), then something like the following might help: among the current membership, randomly generate x samples/members. Then provide a questionnaire (must be brief) to fill out, anonymized. Provide an incentive: free 6-month (or a year) membership. You will still only get a partial response but the information contained will be meaningful. As opposed to the repeated kibitzing by the same folks on this board. I'm a NACD member and the freebie won't entice me to spend a few minutes to send in a questionnaire (I doubt for many cave divers membership fee is a significant financial factor) but the perceived seriousness of the effort might.

    This thread is so long that I have to recheck what it was about, but I do applaud the overall effort.
     

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