AL40 for redundancy diving single tank on deeper dives.

[Jack Hammer]

I have mixed feelings on pony bottles for recreational divers. On one hand I believe in redundancy (which, BTW, is what your buddy should be) and having an ample gas supply. On the other hand I feel a pony is a crutch for many to compensate for poor gas management skills (or a total lack thereof) and can too easily lead to pushing limits because they have the pony. Of course one has to know how to safely maintain and use it too.

That said, many people find the shorter tanks don't ride well when slung. A 40 is more comfortable in the water and you tend to not really know it's there. You'll be happier with the volume if you ever need to use it as gas doesn't last long in most emergencies.

 

[Oldbear]

I think the AL40 is a great size for an emergency bottle. This is what I use when I teach Deep Diver. Doc had nice instructions on how to use it.

You will see posts for and against them...if you are comfortable with them go for it. Diving is suppose to be fun so you need to be comfortable first.

 

[The Chairman]

If you feel more comfortable with a pony, by all means dive with it. Like @Jack Hammer, I also had mixed feelings about them. For a long time, I didn't like people using them to extend their dives, but what the hell? Why not? There's really no one "right" way to dive. The only thing I insist on is that you have fun.

 

[Bigeclipse]

My wife and I have been talking about using an AL 40 as a redundant air supply on some of our deeper dives. Not as stage bottles only for emergency. Have dove doubles and have a set but some boats just too small or not welcome for doubles. We dont want the bracket or anything like that on our tank but to sling it on the side seems the way we want to go. Any do's or donts? when getting tanks or rigging the bottles.

Thanks

I think pony bottles are great if used for what they are meant to be used for and that is emergencies. They should not be used for extra gas to extend dives or poor gas management...etc. I sling a 40cuft on every dive deeper than 75 feet. To me it is no big deal and im not a big guy 5'8. However, it did take a few dives to get used to. Your wife, however, might have difficulty slinging a 40 if she is small. They do add some extra weight. She might be better off with a 19cu. But remember a 19 is really as small as you get if diving to 100ft. Diving do 130ft (max recreational) you may need to consider a 30-40cuft.

 

[gcarter]

Just to play Devils advocate for a moment...

Yes, it defeats the redundancy purpose if you use the pony to extend your dive. But why is that all they should be used for? That is pretty dogmatic. Why not use a pony for extra gas?

If I am using my 11z ,d a buddy has an 80 on his back, what is wrong with him supplementing with a 40?

 

[uncfnp]

Your buddy is your redundant supply. No need for a pony.

As long as you stay near your buddy and maintain good communication you wouldn't ever have a use for a pony.

I think we all know that it only takes a moment of inattention or distraction. It is not a perfect world and neither is the buddy system. If a buddy team feels safer with personal redundancy, that is a self reliant diver and it will only add to the safety of the team. Is it necessary? That is for the team to decide.

 

[uncfnp]

[

I have mixed feelings on pony bottles for recreational divers. On one hand I believe in redundancy (which, BTW, is what your buddy should be) and having an ample gas supply. On the other hand I feel a pony is a crutch for many to compensate for poor gas management skills (or a total lack thereof) and can too easily lead to pushing limits because they have the pony. Of course one has to know how to safely maintain and use it too.

That said, many people find the shorter tanks don't ride well when slung. A 40 is more comfortable in the water and you tend to not really know it's there. You'll be happier with the volume if you ever need to use it as gas doesn't last long in most emergencies.

Can you give us an example where a diver is using it as "a crutch for many to compensate for poor gas management skills"?

 

[CptTightPants21]

Just to play Devils advocate for a moment...

Yes, it defeats the redundancy purpose if you use the pony to extend your dive. But why is that all they should be used for? That is pretty dogmatic. Why not use a pony for extra gas?

If I am using my 11z ,d a buddy has an 80 on his back, what is wrong with him supplementing with a 40?

As a general rule using the pony to extend dives creates complacency and is poor form from a dive planning perspective.


That said, I would consider/do use the pony in certain situations take can be dive or site specific.

I sling a 40 so obviously not all of these scenarios work well with smaller bottles

1. I have used a pony to stay shallow under the water after a dive has been turned so that I wouldn't have to surface swim. Mostly in situations where the site is benign and it looks like my tanks might end around the 200-300 psi so I'll switch to a pony when back gas is 500 so I don't need to rush out of the water/surface. I still have plenty of back gas and gas in the pony.

2. If I have a half full tank and am going to be doing a shallow no current shore dive or work on the platforms at Dutch at 25'. I have brought that pony and treated it like a stage bottle so I wouldn't have to spend money to fill up a tank that is still half full.

3. Similar to point #1. A buddy of mine wanted to make a deep push into the back of Dutch Springs. I had a HP100. He had an LP108 and a slightly better SAC rate. We planned that when I got low I would switch to the pony. This was a little bit different than #1 bc it was treated more like a stage bottle and I was breathing it for longer at deeper depths.

In my mind, general rules if you are going to use the pony to extend the dive
1. Benign dive conditions--lakes, quarries, shallow shore dives, areas where you can safely surface and swim to the exit. Would never plan on using it if you are doing a wreck in the ocean to many unexpected things can happen

2. Only needs to be deployed after you have turned the dive-It is not the "hey let me drain my tanks and then deploy my pony and decide to swim back" like a J valve. It is in situations where you could surface if you needed to and/or you could finish the dive, but it would mean the tank were a very low on PSI and the pony will be used to conserve back gas PSI and allow you to enjoy the end of the dive and not rush.

3. You have buddies-Using the pony could be a planned part of the dive or just a precaution, but either way you have other divers as a redundancy.

I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with the above and the examples given are really for being used with a bigger bottle--I recommend at least a AL 30,preferably a AL 40.

Some people might consider the above poor gas planning, but I don't think I completely agree with that. There is no deco in these dives and there is no hard set game plan. You say you are going to go see X or try to find Y, depth with be around Z, but its never 100% exact. Only the final destination is set, enjoy the journey.

 

[Doby45]

If I used my pony at all during a dive other than an emergency it would be used as a stage bottle, use a third and stow it so that you can "exit" on the other two thirds. You also keep your redundancy perfectly intact. I would NOT use my pony first and drain it and then switch to my back gas.

 

[gypsyjim]

Thanks folks, I've found this thread helpful.

I've been preparing to take the SSI Solo from a friend, and he requires the 40cf pony for the course, if not diving doubles or sm.
Solo, you are your own redundant for everything, including gas. At least in the case of Solo, the pony is NOT for extending your dive time, but for that WTF moment, should it ever happen when there is no buddy to share their gas with you.

I've only slung a pony once, when it was required to dive the Radeaux in Lake George, and i found it awkward. I'm going to find carrying a pony cumbersome, at least at the beginning, but i certainly am willing to learn and adapt.