What makes one cave dive "bigger" than the other?

[victorzamora]

About 4 years ago I got it in my head to create a scale for diving overheads, much like climbers have a scale for the difficulty of their climbs

Let me ask you what your initial hope was, simply due to the skiing and climbing analogies: Were you hoping for a scale for different passages/systems?

 

[Bennno]

So, understanding that the difficulty, the "bigness" of a specific dive, will always be in one system relative to the ability of the person attempting it, would it be possible to make a second system, a more objective rating system for difficulty of the dives that would help divers make decisions about their abilities to attempt them?

No, it would absolutely not NOT help! Scores or ratings WILL encourage people to reach a higher score. You can't compare a skie slope with a water filled caves.
If someone can't judge their own abilities they have no business diving into a cave. If you're not sure about a certan dive, don't do it! That's the whole point in slow progression. Following a rating is exactly what you should not be doing.

Worst idea ever!

 

[bamafan]

Who is going to rate the caves? The same organization that thinks there are no gold line T's in North Florida? If they are the ones in charge the Lost Student Tunnel in JB would be a double black diamond. I agree it will only encourage people to try and get higher scores. I don't think there is a competent agency out there to do the rating and I think it will have adverse effects if it was instituted.

 

[lermontov]

WILL encourage people to reach a higher score.

so what

If someone can't judge their own abilities

lets help them by making a rating system so they know

If you're not sure about a certan dive, don't do it!

and you progress by...? oh yes building up to it by doing easier rated dives

Worst idea ever!

its a very good idea and its been used for decades in other high risk sports

the divers who you are worried about are going to push themselves into dangerous territory regardless of whatever system you have in place including going against senior /experienced advice if you get an overconfident
/inexperienced diver whos tells you there going to do such and such a dive wouldn't you say something? and if they do it anyway whats the difference

boulder john - the english rock climbing grading has a system that gives an overall difficulty and a serious factor ( E) a dive can be equally classified with various classifications - i encourage you to pursue this idea

 

[ajduplessis]

.......Just considering the innovation and advancements of equipment that even beginners now enjoy was at some point developed to cater for sports people pushing the limits .....

Innovation and advancements on equipment has made things easier, however a fool with a tool is still a fool. Equipment is not going to make your decisions, experience and in-water time will help you learn to make better decisions.

Uneventful dives result in little to no experience gained. Consider this when wanting to push your experience envelope; don't rely on others, they might not be there when you want to rely on them.

Generally speaking, I am of the believe that if you are not prepared to do you next "push" dive solo, you are not ready to push your experience limits.

 

[bamafan]

For the people who are in favor of a rating system please provide a list of the people who you feel are qualified to do the rating. I would love to see some of these so called experts who are supposedly in charge actually make a real dive. Also none of the tourist caves have up to date maps. How are you going to rate a system without a current map that shows ALL of the passages? One other thing other high risk sports don't take place in an environment that is extremely fragile. This will cause even more damage to the caves.

 

[lv2dive]

Another factor is visibility stability. I can think of a few caves that are *very* different dives in poor vis vs decent/good vis. Of course that is true of many or most caves, but some caves are much more susceptible to significant changes in vis than others.

 

[PfcAJ]

"Oh wow, the cave on my property is listed as a triple black diamond, the most dangerous rating? You know, I think it's best if we just didn't have anyone dive here anymore".

 

[Bennno]

This also might lurk more OW divers into low level or 'easy caves'.

 

[ofg-1]

"Oh wow, the cave on my property is listed as a triple black diamond, the most dangerous rating? You know, I think it's best if we just didn't have anyone dive here anymore".

AJ, you know you cant get a triple black diamond rating unless the cave randomly spews lava, is inhabited by brain eating amoeba, or is guarded by a North Florida redneck with a shotgun. Lets not be too dramatic.