Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[Trace Malinowski]

That national median would be that point where 50% of the households earn less, and 50% earn more. There are many people in poverty and not the demographic buying scuba equipment and dive tourist trips.

The question is, what is the median income in the demographic you sell to, or wish to sell to? That may vary regionally. In southwestern KY, if I want to dive in the ocean, I need plane tickets, a hotel, likely a rental vehicle...but a young guy right out of high school in Fort Lauderdale, FL, or parts of coastal California, willing to shore dive wouldn't need any of that.

I get that the national median income is a useful metric for getting a rough sense of the buying power of the populace relative to different points over time. I'm just saying specific amounts from it probably aren't all that accurate.

Here's an idea for a poll that would be interesting. I'm not doing it. If someone does, I think it should be just a poll, strictly anonymous, because it's a touchy substance, and even then I don't know how off-putting it'd be to forum members. Imagine a Scuba Board poll asking people to rate their annual gross household income according to a list of ranges:

1.) < 50,000.
2.) 51-75,000.
3.) 76-100,000.
4.) 101-125,000.
5.) 126-175,000.
6.) 176-250,000.
7.) > 250,000.

I wonder where the %'s would fall? Even then, it'd vary by region. You can be an ocean diver cheaper in some coastal areas.

Richard.

Skin Diver magazine did several of these financial demographic polls on their reader service cards back in the day when you could circle numbers related to ads in their magazine and receive actual brochures and catalogs. I don't recall the numbers exactly, but the average diver in the 60's was a mid-20's blue collar worker and by the 80's became a middle-aged white collar worker.

 

[Dogbowl]

Skin Diver magazine did several of these financial demographic polls on their reader service cards back in the day when you could circle numbers related to ads in their magazine and receive actual brochures and catalogs. I don't recall the numbers exactly, but the average diver in the 60's was a mid-20's blue collar worker and by the 80's became a middle-aged white collar worker.

I tend to see more seniors and middle-aged well-travelled divers in my diving travels. I see some teenagers too but they're usually travelling with their middle-aged to senior diving parents.

 

[drrich2]

I don't recall the numbers exactly, but the average diver in the 60's was a mid-20's blue collar worker and by the 80's became a middle-aged white collar worker.

Did the middle-aged white collar worker set replace the mid-20's blue collar set, or did they come on board in addition to them?

For example, let's say some town in California in the 60's had 50 blue collar set divers, including a number of abalone, spear fishing and/or shore divers. Hardy, fit sorts. Cowboy divers, if you prefer.

Cut to 2017 and look at that same town; we'll assume it's doubled in population, but the ocean's not gotten any bigger. We might guess there'd now be 75 of your cowboys?

But let's say we discover 200 middle-aged white collar vacation divers who like tropical aquarium conditions & head out to Cozumel, Roatan, Bonaire or Key Largo.

My question is, how many of your mid-20's hardy, fit 'cowboy' divers are in that town in 2017? If it's 75, then whether you've got 20, 200 or 2,000 of the other category, you've still got your original demographic. The new set aren't hurting them.

On the other hand, if you now only find 25 cowboys, the question becomes why?

Richard.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Might be that the same divers who were 20 year-old auto mechanics in 1968 went to college to avoid Vietnam and emerged 40 year-old stock brokers in 1988 and will be 70 year-old retirees taking their grandchildren to St. Somewhere this summer. Those that no longer dive out of boredom or for health reasons are leaving a giant hole in the coffers.

They may have once been young, dumb, full of ... adventure, switched to being dive travel snobs, and now use scooters at the mall AND underwater.

 

[JamesBon92007]

True, but income is such a sensitive issue with some folks, even in an anonymous poll I wanted to be tactful. You're right, there are people who make a lot less. Probably some high school students or college folks supported by parents, or maybe a relative or friend pays their way sometimes. Or, as you say, they make it a priority.

Richard.

Or old, retired people who don't have any debt and not many bills

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

My perspective is that dive shops at one time, and not too long ago, were the go to place for anything to do with diving, buying gear, learning to dive, finding a dive club, social interaction, learning about the latest gear coming out, everything involving diving. They were the nucleus of the sport. A reg set or any piece of gear was x amount of dollars and that was it, there was no other competing price, you just payed it.
Throughout the 60's 70's 80's and 90's the sport grew at a steady pace. New resorts were popping up and new and exciting places to dive were being discovered around the world. There was a huge campaign to scrap the old military exclusive model and become more inclusive by courting younger and older divers and more women into the sport and ease up on the hard core training regimen that was seen as a turn off to prospective participants. During those years the dive equipment manufacturers were simultaneously working on their own stuff producing equipment that was more dive shop and user friendly. Jacket BC's popped up along with a lot of other gear changes. All this fell right in hand in hand with the direction that dive training was going, meanwhile more and more people were discovering diving, how fun it was, how easy it was, and the whole dive industry machine became huge.
Dive shops really enjoyed these glory years as there seemed to be an inexhaustible flow of new customers coming through the doors spending money at the only place there was to take part in this new and exciting sport, the brick and mortar dive shop.
Then came the internet.
A few forward thinking and shrewd retailers saw the potential and began offering cut rate prices almost half of what retailers were charging. I remember seeing ads for stuff from Leisure Pro back then and couldn't believe that a mask at my LDS for $80 was $39.99 at LP, for the same exact mask!!
At first I thought maybe it was a fake but it turns out it was very true. This really shook the established LDS model to the core when all of a sudden the truth as we saw it was exposed. Nobody ever knew what type of markup was on gear and now we got a glimps of how high prices could be marked up at dive shops.
Nobody in any other form of retail still enjoys a 100% + markup on goods except for maybe a diamond jeweler.
The LDS suddenly becomes a target for extinction. This phenomenon has been going on now for 20 years. Throw in the recession and you have a perfect storm for an epic fail of the old dive shop model.
Most dive shops who were just another retail outlet to supply divers with gear were the biggest victims, especially if they were just rude, greedy, or unpleasant. There were plenty of these and most of them are gone. The dive shops that are more than that or served an geographical area with a broader service than just gear sales are the ones that seem to survive.
The internet really just completely blew apart the entire dive world as we knew it.
It's definitely a consumer empowerment movement with so much information available so easily, and it's really freaking out the old barnacle encrusted dive shops that refuse to change.
How do they change, what do they need to do now to remain relevant?
We need to begin to discuss what we'd like to see in a local dive shop. Maybe they should see it from our view for once, and stop thinking that they are still in charge of everything about diving.
Yeah numbers are down but the ones still here just got a lot smarter.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Did the middle-aged white collar worker set replace the mid-20's blue collar set, or did they come on board in addition to them?

For example, let's say some town in California in the 60's had 50 blue collar set divers, including a number of abalone, spear fishing and/or shore divers. Hardy, fit sorts. Cowboy divers, if you prefer.

Cut to 2017 and look at that same town; we'll assume it's doubled in population, but the ocean's not gotten any bigger. We might guess there'd now be 75 of your cowboys?

But let's say we discover 200 middle-aged white collar vacation divers who like tropical aquarium conditions & head out to Cozumel, Roatan, Bonaire or Key Largo.

My question is, how many of your mid-20's hardy, fit 'cowboy' divers are in that town in 2017? If it's 75, then whether you've got 20, 200 or 2,000 of the other category, you've still got your original demographic. The new set aren't hurting them.

On the other hand, if you now only find 25 cowboys, the question becomes why?

Richard.

I know there are at least a few cowboys still out there. As a matter-of-fact my sons-in-law are cowboys--for real. One is a farrier and the other did it part-time and trained horses. But to the point--one of them is very interested in scuba diving and spearfishing and so is my 10-year-old grandson. Both are very physically fit and adventurous. I'm sure they will both start diving soon. I've had them out snorkeling/free-diving at Casino Point and one of the Orange County beaches, plus the son-in-law has done some snorkeling in Hawai'i too. I'll probably give the 10-year-old scuba lessons for his birthday or something. The dad can get his own lessons

 

[Trace Malinowski]

We need to begin to discuss what we'd like to see in a local dive shop.

I'd like to see no more affiliation with training agencies. Everyone welcome. More diverse instructors so students could choose education based upon student - teacher dynamic. A place that operates more socially and becomes the local hang out. Quick or immediate equipment service. No hassle zones. More opportunities to go diving locally and on trips rather than the push on cont. ed. More adventure, exploration, treasure, off the beaten path diving. Scuba heroes on posters rather than nameless diversity smiles. Food. Coffee. Couches. Less retail clutter. Maybe not even dedicated to diving but other pursuits that are related such as marine/fishing or caving/camping/hiking/climbing. Maybe porn stars from Vivid Entertainment next door. Oh, wait! Kareem Hamza has that covered at Hollywood Divers.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I know there are at least a few cowboys still out there. As a matter-of-fact my sons-in-law are cowboys--for real. One is a farrier and the other did it part-time and trained horses. But to the point--one of them is very interested in scuba diving and spearfishing and so is my 10-year-old grandson. Both are very physically fit and adventurous. I'm sure they will both start diving soon. I've had them out snorkeling/free-diving at Casino Point and one of the Orange County beaches, plus the son-in-law has done some snorkeling in Hawai'i too. I'll probably give the 10-year-old scuba lessons for his birthday or something. The dad can get his own lessons

I'm thinking about quitting diving and trying to track down my old Mexican saddle then finding a job that would afford an Arabian. My mother's had an unreal personality.

Freediving is booming. I taught that 20 years too early. I also think freediving is affordable for the struggling millennials. Spearing offers the survival trend. The athleticism goes along with the younger generation's embrace of obstacle course racing and other means of finding their inner caveman/cave woman.

 

[drrich2]

A place that operates more socially and becomes the local hang out.

How well does that work when people have to drive to get there, are often travel divers (unless it's coastal with local diving) and aren't diving the same places, don't know each other for the most part and are accustomed to hanging out & socializing via social media online these days instead of in real world settings (e.g. the bar on the t.v. series Cheers)?

The main real world example I see is when there's a dive club, which may be run by a LDS, that may have monthly meetings, dues, benefits, etc... That seems fairly popular with one in my region, and a private instructor I know also does this.

Do LDS need to form, or affiliate with, dive clubs?

Or do they attempt to somehow create an atmosphere where people drive over at random times hoping to talk with shop staff or hit it off with a fellow customer?

Richard.