Yes/No requirement for Med form

[uncfnp]

That puts the responsibility on the student for lying or omitting info. Finis.

Yes, that is how I would interpret it as an outside party that deals with medical forms on a daily basis. Especially if PADI is not willing to provide more clarification.

 

[tursiops]

The student seems to have three real options:
A) Answer the form completely and honestly. If there are any YES answers, get a doctor's signature.
B) Don't answer the form honestly....put all NO answers no matter what.
C) Don't answer the form at all. Get a doctor's signature.

If I get a version (B) form from a middle-aged person, I'm suspicious. There are 1-4 questions that a sedentary middle-aged person is likely to need to put a YES on. So i get the form to the student well in advance so there is no issue of it being the last-minute and no time to get a doctor's signature.

I'd prefer if ALL students had to get a doctor's signature, period. Like in Australia.

 

[JohnnyC]

Standards have already been covered.

What I would do out of personal interest (read: ignoring legal liability, PADI standards, etc), is make sure the student's doctor bases their recommendation on the questions indicated on the PADI form. Unless the doctor is familiar with diving medicine, they are not necessarily in a position to make an informed, expert decision regarding the suitability of the student to dive.

If you provide the MD with the form, they can approve the student based on a better level of understanding. Screw any legal issue, I just don't want to put myself in a position where I'm forced to intervene with a medical issue underwater due to a lack of understanding by a doctor signing off on a student when they really don't have a solid understanding of potential issues.

It doesn't require any personal intrusion into the students medical history, you don't need to know what their past medical issues are, but the doctor certainly needs to know the circumstances upon which they are being requested to provide an opinion. If, after knowing about any potential issues, they are still willing to provide a recommendation that the student can dive, then drive on. Your personal concerns have been covered, the students right to privacy has been covered, go dive.

 

[vovanx]

Most doctors have no clue why people on insulin shouldn't dive.

sorry for offtopic, but why shouldn't they dive?

 

[tridacna]

sorry for offtopic, but why shouldn't they dive?

This is not off-topic. This is exactly why you take the form to a physician. Instructors should not play doctors.

 

[The Chairman]

sorry for offtopic, but why shouldn't they dive?

Insulin dependent diabetics can't effectively produce/regulate insulin production to increase/decrease their glucose levels. This can lead to convulsions underwater. While problematic on the hard, these can be deadly in or under water.

This is exactly why you take the form to a physician. Instructors should not play doctors.

I'm not playing "doctor" here, but I am acting as a dive professional. Should a doctor clear an insulin dependent diabetic to dive, I want to know WHY. I also want to know that they are insulin independent. Should the doctor be wrong and the student start the shakes underwater, I need to know what to look for as well as what to do. Getting them to the surface is a no-brainer, but what then? Why would I allow ignorance to put me or my student into that situation? Moreover, if I'm not aware of a particular condition, I won't know what to look for. People go into denial all the time when things go wrong underwater. If you don't know, then you won't be looking for those sometimes subtle clues.

Just because a doctor says a condition is diveable doesn't mean I HAVE to teach them, especially if they are unwilling to let me know what it is. I teach adaptive Scuba so I have to deal with doctors and divers who have no clue all the time. There are many conditions I can dive with... most days... with benign conditions. But not knowing about that condition puts me at a disadvantage and my student's health at risk. Maybe a certain condition requires an extra buddy. Maybe it requires a few extra buddies. If a diver is unwilling to let me know what the condition is, then I am unwilling to teach them. I can teach/dive with a legally blind diver with an extra set of eyes and fins. Autisitic? I need two and so on. I can't make those decisions that impact safety if I'm ignorant of a diver's need for adaptation.

Bottom line. If something happens on the dive, you can be sure that you will be held liable by the survivors for your willful ignorance of their loved one's condition. "I don't play doctor" isn't the best defense. Trust is a two way street. If they can't trust me with sensitive information, then I can't trust them to let me know if or when it's causing them a problem.

 

[Melanie White]

The student seems to have three real options:
A) Answer the form completely and honestly. If there are any YES answers, get a doctor's signature.
B) Don't answer the form honestly....put all NO answers no matter what.
C) Don't answer the form at all. Get a doctor's signature.

If I get a version (B) form from a middle-aged person, I'm suspicious. There are 1-4 questions that a sedentary middle-aged person is likely to need to put a YES on. So i get the form to the student well in advance so there is no issue of it being the last-minute and no time to get a doctor's signature.

I'd prefer if ALL students had to get a doctor's signature, period. Like in Australia.

Well we must be unusual I am 43 hubby is 44 we answer honesty all no and do not get or need doctors signature I asked to make sure. I row everyday 20000m to 24000m and do heavy weights 3 times a week. Never had any medical conditions unless you count having 6 kids. Hubby works out a lot also.

 

[Wookie]

I had a medical form to go on the Spree. I asked if you had any contraindications to diving. You answered yes or no. If you answered no, I had all of the proof I needed to answer the question in court. If you answered yes, you were directed to get a letter from your doctor with specific language that stated that the doctor understood your particular contraindication to diving and accepted the medical responsibility for your diving. I never had a problem getting one signed, and the customer couldn't sign up without the letter in hand.

I agree with the subject of the OP. I don't need someone who doesn't keep HIPAA compliant records with HIPAA information on it. I jealously guard my PII, to the point of mild insanity. The fact that the credit agencies still have my credit reports and share them with all of the hackers burns my butt.

 

[tridacna]

Insulin dependent diabetics can't effectively produce/regulate insulin production to increase/decrease their glucose levels. This can lead to convulsions underwater. While problematic on the hard, these can be deadly in or under water.


I'm not playing "doctor" here, but I am acting as a dive professional. Should a doctor clear an insulin dependent diabetic to dive, I want to know WHY. I also want to know that they are insulin independent. Should the doctor be wrong and the student start the shakes underwater, I need to know what to look for as well as what to do. Getting them to the surface is a no-brainer, but what then? Why would I allow ignorance to put me or my student into that situation? Moreover, if I'm not aware of a particular condition, I won't know what to look for. People go into denial all the time when things go wrong underwater. If you don't know, then you won't be looking for those sometimes subtle clues.

Just because a doctor says a condition is diveable doesn't mean I HAVE to teach them, especially if they are unwilling to let me know what it is. I teach adaptive Scuba so I have to deal with doctors and divers who have no clue all the time. There are many conditions I can dive with... most days... with benign conditions. But not knowing about that condition puts me at a disadvantage and my student's health at risk. Maybe a certain condition requires an extra buddy. Maybe it requires a few extra buddies. If a diver is unwilling to let me know what the condition is, then I am unwilling to teach them. I can teach/dive with a legally blind diver with an extra set of eyes and fins. Autisitic? I need two and so on. I can't make those decisions that impact safety if I'm ignorant of a diver's need for adaptation.

Bottom line. If something happens on the dive, you can be sure that you will be held liable by the survivors for your willful ignorance of their loved one's condition. "I don't play doctor" isn't the best defense. Trust is a two way street. If they can't trust me with sensitive information, then I can't trust them to let me know if or when it's causing them a problem.

Pete, how many other conditions do you play doctor with? Seriously, diabetes is an easy one. (Not). Are you a part-time endocrinologist too? Do you do the same for every student condition?

I can’t imagine interrogating students on every YES answer. “Trust” csn be interpreted as “nosy”.

 

[njdiverjoe]

Pete, how many other conditions do you play doctor with? Seriously, diabetes is an easy one. (Not). Are you a part-time endocrinologist too? Do you do the same for every student condition?

I can’t imagine interrogating students on every YES answer. “Trust” csn be interpreted as “nosy”.

This is exactly why a good friend of mine no longer will turn in the form with a "yes" and a doctors signature, he simply puts "no" down on every question.