BSAC avoids annual VIP

[JackD342]

That is why there's an exception for up to 440 pounds of MOT (materials of trade), and an exception for items that are not "in commerce."

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/phmsa.dot.gov/files/docs/MOTS brochure 2007_10_02.pdf

The author of this article seems to have some pretty specific clarification of any grey areas and interpretations, although no documentation of sources other than links to main landing pages.
Removing the Confusion Over Scuba Cylinder Transportation - SDI | TDI | ERDI

I read this as saying that for a shop/instructor, the Materials of Trade exception applies for cylinders that they will personally use up to 440 lbs, but if transporting any air at all for students then there is a "bill of lading" paperwork requirement of sorts for transporting under 1,000 lbs before getting into the need for CDL.

 

[NAM001]

It is strange that it works in rest of the world. ...

Im not sure how to reply to that. because after many discussions regarding over filling where one side says a USA 2400 tank is filled to well into the 3k and above over seas and its that same tank. the other side says they are different tanks. different in wall thickness and alloys. so the apples to apples comparison may not e valid. I too have had explainations for this in that the US has a safety factor of 4 and other nations have a SF of 3 or even 2.5 . citing working pressure is burst pressure / safety factor. an lp tank in the us has a burst of 10k so 10/ 4 is the 2500 aka 2400 working presure. Using a SF of 3 would make it a 3300 psi tank etc. and 2.5 would make it a 4k tank. I am also in favor in full VIS's every 2 or years to start because our tanks just do not have the failure issues that tanks of the past or certain tanks on certain years have had. I am also in favor of an abreviated inspection every year and a full is some longer period. an abreviated would be pull the valve look inside for obvious threatening corrosion/ damage and the same on the out side. If present use as (excuse the term) probable cause to do a full VIS with straight edges and pit gages. Yes this will cut into the LDS profits. especially when an lds tank monkey does 50 vis's a day and claims he did a respectable job. Try asking your LDS how deep was the worst pit it he tank. His eyes will roll because its possible he never did anything but remove valve put a light in and close the tank. IF THAT MUCH...... I have watched 15 yo kids of owners remove a valve shine a pen light in the tank put the valve back on in 2 minutes and another minute to slap a sticker on top of the old one. that alone is 20 tanks an hour. My point is that IMO 90 percent of the tanks we have out there have probably NEVER had a legitimate vis done on it and have been have been in service perhaps 2 decades. A poor inspection is almost no inspection at all. perhaps thank god for the SF of 4.

 

[NAM001]

I’m not sure this is correct. I think they only cover the above transport when it’s for commercial purposes. As a practical matter the DOT have no interest you if your not driving a truck (box truck or semi)

I believe you are correct. three is the argument that any commercial venture is under DOT also. a lot of debate on all the aspects of scuba.

 

[NAM001]

The author of this article seems to have some pretty specific clarification of any grey areas and interpretations, although no documentation of sources other than links to main landing pages.
Removing the Confusion Over Scuba Cylinder Transportation - SDI | TDI | ERDI

I read this as saying that for a shop/instructor, the Materials of Trade exception applies for cylinders that they will personally use up to 440 lbs, but if transporting any air at all for students then there is a "bill of lading" paperwork requirement of sorts for transporting under 1,000 lbs before getting into the need for CDL.

I have heard 1000 dollar value as opposed to 1000 LB> weight being the trigger line. I think i HAVE READ 1000 dollars also. may be 1960 dollars but who knows.
I have heard interpretations that an instructor can not transport tanks but students can. because students are for personal use and instructors is a business movement. Peraonal use is not covered by the regs. And yet a truck can ship tanks full or not with a 20 yo hydro date on it, but you can not fill a tank with an old date on it.

I try to envision a dive vehicle that can carry legally 1000# thats like 50 al80's. A previous shop owner would not carry over 5 tanks because his belief was he had to be under 1000$ value. so students carried tanks.

 

[chrisch]

...
Honestly, it's not very hard to remove a valve and have a glance inside your tank between fills. The hardest part is convincing yourself that draining the tank completely isn't as bad as some would make it sound. I think I got used to draining my tanks anyway because my LDS does PP blends and prefers an empty tank. Since I was draining my tanks anyway, it seemed like a no brainier to have a glance inside on a regular basis.....

I can't find fault with that - it is a good idea to routinely inspect one's equipment to make sure it is OK. Draining a tank is fine - why should there be any problem? You just need to replace the neck O ring when reassembling.

The problem - in the context of UK visuals - is that most UK shops will not fill an empty tank. If the tank is totally empty most shops will not fill it unless they have opened up the tank themselves; which generally means a new visual and the appropriate fee. Also opening it up will invalidate the O2 clean (all UK tanks must have a valid O2 sticker for nitrox filling).

Most UK divers think the stickers/inspection business is a racket. We are held hostage by IDEST which is a cartel of testers and fill stations. The BSAC intervention is very welcome and very popular here.

It is becoming difficult to get a fill, never mind a test, in many places. A lot of dive shops have gone in the last 20 years or so. Fill prices are not enough that any shop really makes any money out of pumping air. Equipment sales have moved to the Internet and local shops cannot compete with on line prices. For us it is an industry in crisis. Diving as a pastime is rapidly becoming yesterday's activity. Clubs are losing members and the average age of divers is getting higher.

The one area that has done OK is "technical" diving. We older divers have a bit more money thanks to house price inflation and have enthusiastically moved to trimix and rebreathers. Youngsters have a hard time with college fees (it was free in my day) and other unfair aspects of modern life. We old techies have a lot of tanks

 

[Sam Miller III]

A shot history quiz

VIP

When ? where ? why ?
What agency ?

Inquiring minds want to know ???

SDM

 

[W W Meixner]

Hey Folks...

I like it...sounds good in principle...

I'm VIP certified and O2 clean all my tanks...rebreather and bailout...

My only concern is...especially when diving ''away'' and that rare occasion you get an ''oily'' fill and hydrocarbons are unintentionally introduced into the cylinder...and remain there for five years...

Locally I'm down from December to at least the end of March...I service and re-sticker my tanks during this period...clean tanks for me is critical...I'll continue to do this for myself even if the standard is revised...

The OW...''air only'' divers who rely solely on ''shop service'' for everything will certainly benefit from this change...

If the US adopts the standard and Canada does not...US divers diving in Canada with their own tanks may have a problem...as the tank stickers will not show ''Annual Servicing''...in Ontario we get a lot of US divers driving up to Tobermory...bringing all their own gear...rebreathers...doubles...and side-mount...

I don't know whether Canada will follow the lead...we can only hope...likely will not be an ''over-night'' change anyway...

Dive Safe...

Warren

 

[Schwob]

Well and of course the change in newer VIP inspector certs now having to be renewed every three years, sooner even than any regular drivers license I ever heard of, is all driven by sound safety thinking and not driven by greed at all.. Sure! ... And that's not just PCI... my TDI VIP cert. is demanding renewal in three years at well.
Edit:
Want to bet that renewal will also cost more than renewing a driver's license? And will not be done by passing a test and mybe demonstrate an inspection... but be done by spending hours listening to the same class with next to nothing new all over again before doing some mock inspection and the test?
...
And how comfortable should I feel about the person doing the VIP now being aparrently considered to forget it all in 3 years time and misplace their book and are incapable to reaquaint themselves with something the've been doing for 3 years now... ...
... It's just another real annoying racket that ... imho only of course.
...
If I were to bring a tank in for VIP to the place I'd trust a little more with it and don't want to cut into weekend days, I'd have to drive 1.5 hours after work to drop off, an hour back and then do it again to pick up... DIY makes sense just because of that and at least then I know what I observed...
...
I don't know about a 5 minute VI. I do mine carefully ... But on a fairly new, always dry, clean and shiny smooth AL tank with wonderful thread... , yeah, cleaning the previous year's sticker residue off may take longer than the actual VI... even for a guy like me who just VI's very few tanks.

 

[Sam Miller III]

@Schwob You always seen to have a handle on things...

I will repost ….

A shot history quiz

VIP

When ? where ? why ?
What agency ?

Inquiring minds want to know ???

SDM

DD

 

[Bob DBF]

Most UK divers think the stickers/inspection business is a racket. We are held hostage by IDEST which is a cartel of testers and fill stations. The BSAC intervention is very welcome and very popular here.

It's a racket in the US, but with a different set of players. Since it isn't actually regulated here, the tank inspection can be done by a tank monkey without certification by anyone but the senior tank monkey. That shop sticker is just as valid as a PCI stickèr, and without certification as a inspector the profit margin is higher.


Bob