Air Bank cylinder testing

[Edward3c]

Hi guys I’m having a nightmare with a cylinder testing place, I’ve bin quoted £400 to test 8 air bank cylinders if I can wait 2 weeks so I agreed and transported them by trailer 90 miles to the test place. After unloading them he tells me he wants double the test fee for 4 of them because they have a round base it will take a lot more labour arrantly I wasn’t happy but what can you do I said ok, before taking the cylinders for test I took the valves out and looked inside with a camera to make sure it was worth taking them for test(no rust) after waiting 8 weeks now they are telling me one cylinder is scrap due to corrosion and 5 valves a scrap because of bad threads, the threads on the valves was perfect with no wear/damage when I unscrewed them and I seen no heavy rust in any of the cylinders, so I’ve said ok I’d like to see the cylinder that has failed and the 5 valves with bad threads, they have told me no they have already bin disposed of and they now want £802 of me and that includes a good will gesture of knocking off the test fee for the cylinder that failed and they want full payment up front before i can go down to the premises I was under the impression that the cylinder would have had the neck cut to render it unusable but I’m still able see it, same with the valves, I’m just getting very suspicious of this place that their trying to have my pants down, what do you guys think?

When you took the cylinders in did they get your to sign that failed cylinders and values could be distroyed. If not they still belong to you and you should have a good UK Small Claims case against the test house.

 

[Daz996]

When you took the cylinders in did they get your to sign that failed cylinders and values could be distroyed. If not they still belong to you and you should have a good UK Small Claims case against the test house.

I didn’t sign anything until I collected them, never mind it’s the last time ill go there.

 

[iain/hsm]

I thought all ASME were not subject to retest ever….

You get this often and a lot of folk think that. But this no test claim is scuba land la la land nonsense.

All cylinders are subject to re examination and re testing including all ASME cylinders.

The difference is that not all ASME cylinders require a hydro but they still need examination and retesting just not the hydro part.

This is why I included the phrase Appendix 22 in my earlier comment after stating ASME VIII division 1. The Appendix 22 part allows the designer a higher allowable stress in the calculations at a higher working pressure but it's only applicable to seamless forged cylinder tubes. Gases such as Air. Helium. N2 etc and a static location. ie not transportable.

The penalty of course is weight 400Lbs and a 19mm 3/4" wall thickness typical of the diving ASME types. Compared to the 7mm 200lb DOT Transportable cylinder that indeed do require a hydro with the examination and re test.

And to add to the detail for diving use (wet or condensing gases) the additional condition under ASME VIII Div 1 Appendix 22 is that you need to invoke a 1.6mm corrosion allowance to the design or reduce the maximum allowable working pressure. As divers and compressor operators with HP banks this should be common knowledge. Iain

 

[Wookie]

As divers and compressor operators with HP banks this should be common knowledge.

Knowledge is not common. As I'm sure you have seen as well, lots of sketchy dive shops have torpedo air flasks that have never had an internal examination and think they are just fine because "the government made them to last".

Perhaps true, the government made them to last about 20 years with no maintenance, or poor maintenance performed by sailors. They weren't made to last out in the weather with water and schmutz and dead cockroaches in them for an additional 40 years.

I've never experienced the round bottom MOD cylinders you speak of, as they can't be good for much besides a fixed installation. But when I get round bottom cylinders in a fixed installation, I still want a valve in the bottom just to check.....

 

[iain/hsm]

When you took the cylinders in did they get your to sign that failed cylinders and values could be distroyed. If not they still belong to you and you should have a good UK Small Claims case against the test house.

Edward.

Thinking scuba retail dive shop testing doesn't always wash with commercial cylinders. The average UK dive shop doing the odd scuba cylinder out back of a retail establishment under some made up IDEST/SITA ASSET re test cobblers in one thing.

But up against re testing a commercial pressure vessel in the UK is a procedure mostly undertaken by a company accredited by UKAS with only a few of them being also members of SITA / IDEST if they can be bothered testing private one off scuba cylinder for the public.

I can't see any of them testing commercial bank cylinders under scuba IDEST any more than a commercial gas cylinder being tested as a scuba cylinder. Good luck with your small claims. The defence of an accredited test centre under UKAS legislation in condemning cylinders or valves is assured. Please reconsider advising the OP from wasting his money on a UK small claims.

 

[Edward3c]

Edward.

Thinking scuba retail dive shop testing doesn't always wash with commercial cylinders. The average UK dive shop doing the odd scuba cylinder out back of a retail establishment under some made up IDEST/SITA ASSET re test cobblers in one thing.

But up against re testing a commercial pressure vessel in the UK is a procedure mostly undertaken by a company accredited by UKAS with only a few of them being also members of SITA / IDEST if they can be bothered testing private one off scuba cylinder for the public.

I can't see any of them testing commercial bank cylinders under scuba IDEST any more than a commercial gas cylinder being tested as a scuba cylinder. Good luck with your small claims. The defence of an accredited test centre under UKAS legislation in condemning cylinders or valves is assured. Please reconsider advising the OP from wasting his money on a UK small claims.

Jumping to conclusions again.

I get my cylinders tested by a specialist testing station doing 90% commercial pressure systems, not a dive shop. I sign the same documents when I drop off cylinders as any commercial entity.

As for the the small claims system, that’s what it’s there for to make unethical businesses accountable. Many will settle out-of-court to save the expense of fighting the case with all the negative publicity it attracts.

 

[iain/hsm]

Jumping to conclusions again.

I get my cylinders tested by a specialist testing station doing 90% commercial pressure systems, not a dive shop. I sign the same documents when I drop off cylinders as any commercial entity.

Three questions.
You get what exactly tested.......... your scuba cylinders or the industrial Air Bank cylinders,
Care to tell us where exactly you went for said test and how much you paid.

 

[iain/hsm]

I should add that the 1.6mm corrosion allowance I stated under ASME VIII Div 1 should have read 1/16"
(1.6mm equivalent). as its an American standard and uses imperial measurements

In addition I should also add that the reduction of maximum allowable working pressure MAWP
mentioned earlier isn't much around 300 psi

 

[iain/hsm]

No i didn’t send them to Nottingham I took them to Selby, I normally have cts in Liverpool test my cylinders but their ovens have bin down for 5 weeks I should of waited, yes I own the cylinders their not boc rentals etc, sorry I can’t be bothered talking to you anymore, you come across as smug, arrogant, smart arse trying to be clever, sorry.

Hi Again Daz 996

Remember me, when I asked you

"Now to kick off are you sure you firstly own the cylinders and they've not ex rentals you got off eBay and have Air Products, BOC or such like written around the neck."

And you said you did own them and said that they are not BOC rentals.

Well can you please take a closer look at the photo on your latest advert on EBay selling said cylinders
is that BOC written on the shoulder. Just asking

And for others here that think a small claims court would be the way to go.......maybe not

Here you go EBay in UK advert from Daz87

air bank cylinder Scuba Diving Full 10 Year Test + Repaint | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for air bank cylinder Scuba Diving Full 10 Year Test + Repaint at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

• air bank cylinder Scuba Diving Full 10 Year Test + Repaint | eBay

All the best Gentlemen ROFL Iain

 

[Wookie]

Hi Again Daz 996

Remember me, when I asked you

"Now to kick off are you sure you firstly own the cylinders and they've not ex rentals you got off eBay and have Air Products, BOC or such like written around the neck."

And you said you did.

Can you please take a closer look at the photo on your latest advert on EBay selling said cylinders
is that BOC written on the neck. Just asking

And for others here that think a small claims court would be the way to go.......maybe not

Here you go EBay in UK advert from Daz87

air bank cylinder Scuba Diving Full 10 Year Test + Repaint | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for air bank cylinder Scuba Diving Full 10 Year Test + Repaint at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

• air bank cylinder Scuba Diving Full 10 Year Test + Repaint | eBay

All the best Gentlemen ROFL Iain




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View attachment 755594

Does BOC not sell off cylinders to private individuals?