Who would YOU de-Permaban?

[lowviz]

IMHO, that would be wonderful for those of us who are capable of seeing other views in the raw and altering our own thinking. (Such as you could/would.)

Problem is, there are others who are just 'Point of View' warriors. They would charge in and muck the place up as a two-day free-for-all.

Other opinions may vary...

 

[Jay]

To have someone back depends on how severe their offending was. Notwithstanding that ...

Devon Diver (Andy Davis)

I say bring back RossH. It always brought Dr. Mitchell and others with great insight and knowledge. The trouble is having to deal with Ross.

... I enjoyed reading posts from both the above. It doesn't matter weather I agreed with them or not. I sure did learn.

 

[Bubblesong]

Hmm? Its good that you report yourself for moderation more than you report anyone else?

I'm not seeing that as a record to persist at. Maybe some self analysis of why you reported yourself and some modification in your future posting??

There is no need to put your boot on the neck of the guy that has prostrated himself in humble apology. This is not nice.
I have reported my posts the “morning after”, when I’ve had some sleep, re-considered how they sound, and yet it is too late to delete. In the real world, we wish we could take back our unkind words, In SB world, we can!

 

[TrimixToo]

I suggest that people read all of the thread up to that point, not just the part CuzzA decided to quote. You will not, however, see the posts that were deleted.

As others have suggested, there were many, many other factors involved, which moderators are not at liberty to discuss. I can point out, though, that a year or so before his permaban, dumpsterDiver was banned for 6 months, the longest ban I have ever seen other than a permaban. He was reinstated with the agreement that he would toe the line very carefully or be gone. That was all long, long before the posts CuzzA and BRT present as being the only reason he was banned.

The few posts cited above were by no means the only or even the final straw--and you can be sure that camel's back was straining under a heavy load before that.

But believe what you want to believe. I don't give a damn.

As a former English literature scholar, I am now reminded of some obscure lines that Hamlet speaks to his mother:

That monster, custom, who all sense doth eat,
Of habits devil, is angel yet in this,
That to the use of actions fair and good
He likewise gives a frock or livery,
That aptly is put on. Refrain to-night,
And that shall lend a kind of easiness
To the next abstinence: the next more easy;​

I decided a few weeks ago that I had had enough of ScubaBoard in my life. Since then I have made only a few impulsive posts, and this will be the first in a week. I have been checking in on ScubaBoard pretty much every day, but every day that I choose not to post, even when I think I have something valuable to say, makes the next day's abstinence easier.

This post may be my last. This place has become just too unfriendly for me, and this thread is an example. CuzzA and BRT know damn well that their posts are not accurate descriptions of that banning, so their whole purpose was to inflame sentiment against me. I understand. Some people are like that. So for now, I am choosing to stay away from this sort of toxic environment.

Carry on. Spit on me all you want. There was a time that this would have mattered to me. It doesn't any more.

Our loss, if you leave.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Sorry but you can't take back what someone else read before you had your change of heart. People who have read it remember for good or ill. I have seen people deliberately push other posters buttons, even make accusations and personal attacks then re-consider their post and delete/rewrite it leaving their victim looking like the ass hat because they aren't all sweetness and light in response to their tormentor.
IMHO some people are quick to criticize Mods for bias and slow to man up to their own We can't and wont break confidence about what transpires when we are forced to use disciplinary actions. Every ban is the result of a lot of discussion in the back room over a lot of violations for a long period of time. It is a team decision not made by one person to make sure it is fair.

It seems to me that John is getting an unfair wrap here which is incredibly hard to stomach because I can't think of a single Mod who has been more ethical, educational and holds so much of the history of SB in his personal memory. IMHO if we lose @boulderjohn over this thread it will be more of a loss than all those people combined who worked hard to earn their exit papers. He has had a lot on his plate and he does not deserve the rubbish being served up here. As has been said John is the first to recuse himself if there is the slightest question of bias

Yes some threaten to leave and come back but that isn't how everyone works. I truly hope we haven't read John's last post on SB

 

[Schwob]

That part where in the real world with a real problem where you i.e. might choose to have a beer with someone to talk it over in earnest, because you do value them that much... that part is sorely absent in the virtual world. And it's incredibly hard to get a real read on people... and it's quite easy for someone so inclined to poke with sticks or worse... and it is hard for some to know how to take so ... and I woukd say that for those that choose to be here with their professional identity and reputation out in the open, I imagine it could be quite harder yet.

Anyway, I digress. Pete, when's that "have a beer together" feature ever going to be ready (yeah, ok, beverage of your choosing)...

Edit:
@boulderjohn : As far as I'm concerned you'd always be good for a beer in my neck of the woods. Too much posting is not good for most I imagine especially with things tending to take on a live of their own and at times enjoyed too much by those who enjoy to poke for reaction... On can only try to put right so much and then it's too much. I must have thought that sort of thing (how much time can he sink into this?) a few times seeing you patiently reply and justify and re-explain ... and again... Maybe sometimes it just gets too much... and that's OK. But hey, no need to go cold turkey! Stick around, will ya?

 

[Neilwood]

That sounds like it would be a great feature! There are a number of people on this forum that I would buy a virtual beer/wine/coffee etc for. I have to say that @boulderjohn would be on that list - he has hugely increased my knowledge of diving through his posts.

 

[CuzzA]

Sorry but you can't take back what someone else read before you had your change of heart. People who have read it remember for good or ill. I have seen people deliberately push other posters buttons, even make accusations and personal attacks then re-consider their post and delete/rewrite it leaving their victim looking like the ass hat because they aren't all sweetness and light in response to their tormentor.
IMHO some people are quick to criticize Mods for bias and slow to man up to their own We can't and wont break confidence about what transpires when we are forced to use disciplinary actions. Every ban is the result of a lot of discussion in the back room over a lot of violations for a long period of time. It is a team decision not made by one person to make sure it is fair.

It seems to me that John is getting an unfair wrap here which is incredibly hard to stomach because I can't think of a single Mod who has been more ethical, educational and holds so much of the history of SB in his personal memory. IMHO if we lose @boulderjohn over this thread it will be more of a loss than all those people combined who worked hard to earn their exit papers. He has had a lot on his plate and he does not deserve the rubbish being served up here. As has been said John is the first to recuse himself if there is the slightest question of bias

Yes some threaten to leave and come back but that isn't how everyone works. I truly hope we haven't read John's last post on SB

You are welcome to edit my my post, it won't hurt my feelings. You can delete the whole thread if you want. I still wouldn't be offended. John and Jim always butted heads. Jim's previous ban was an interaction with John in a cigarette thread. I followed the thread I linked here, not much was edited except my post that I couldn't believe they just banned him for that. Hell, RainPilot put Jim in his place by linking his unplanned deco thread. Regardless, I would have preferred the two of them be forced to put each other on ignore, as it was quite evident they did not get along, however, as also evident, most everyone here appreciated interacting with both of them. If you do not want people to see these older contentious threads that resulted in a ban. Delete them. If you don't want to talk about bans or moderation, delete them.

John revealed he was just about over SB. Sounds like there's something else going on that most of us would have no clue about. I would prefer John stick around. As I would also prefer some of our banned members be allowed back. I think people should utilize the ignore feature. That's what it's there for.

 

[The Chairman]

It's incredibly hard to get a permaban on ScubaBoard. Spammers get it quickly as do any, physical, legal or emotional threats (including stalking). That group probably comprises %98 of all the permabans on SB including some of the peeps mentioned here. After the spammers and threatners/stalkers, I would believe that POV warriors and those who constantly insult others make up the rest of the banned. Contrary to popular belief, I personally ban very, very few and those are always those who have threatened or stalked users. Everyone should feel safe here. Users are allowed to disagree as long as they are civil about it. Attack the idea, not the user. We encourage civil discourse and we love controversy. Just be nice or at least be civil. So obviously, you can disagree even with a mod. We don't restrict much in regards to discussion. No, you can't encourage people to learn Scuba or Cave diving without an instructor or any obviously unsafe diving practice but that's about it. We usually just delete those messages and send a warning. Sheeesh, when SDI first came out with the solo diver was a rough time for mods to consider that it -might- be safe.

The mods are a diverse hard working bunch of people. We have newbie divers all the way to course directors on staff from all over the world. We even have a token DIR diver and even a Texan, so it's obvious that we are quite diverse! Temp bans and edits/deletions are at the discretion of the Mod who claims an incidence. They may ask for advice, but they aren't compelled to listen to it. When it comes to permabans, it takes a lot of intense discussion and we look for a clear mandate. Mods sometimes think I value users over them. That's not true, and I am a fierce protector should you attack any of them, but I can certainly see why they sometimes feel that way. I simply value being fair above all else. I'm not going to allow anyone to guilt me into being unfair. Even then, I'm more than happy to allow the group to make the final decision. Like users, mods come an go. It's a normal ebb and flow of any forum and it complies to the rule of fun. If you're not having fun, then why stay? Figure out what's stealing your fun and make some adjustments so you can have fun or you're going to leave. Mods are no different, but if/when a mod asks to leave, I ask them think about it for a bit. But, just like anyone can call a dive, the mods are allowed to "call" their participation here on SB. No, I'm not going to beg them to stay, just as I won't beg anyone to make a dive. Again, it's the rule of fun. Mods are only effective when they are having fun. Users only stay if they're having fun. We try to keep things fun and that means we have to moderate the "mean".

I followed the thread I linked here, not much was edited except my post that I couldn't believe they just banned him for that.

How foolish to think that's why he was banned. No, I can't and won't get into the real reasons why, but that wasn't "it".

 

[Storker]

Hmm? Its good that you report yourself for moderation more than you report anyone else?

Sometimes I post things that I regret after the time that we can modify our posts. I don't like to think that I made people feel badly about themselves.

I've self-reported several times. Usually when I've posted something and then started thinking "damn, was that out of line, or am I still within the ToS and any Special Rules?" If that happens, a self-report is basically a way to ask the mod corps whether or not I crossed the line.

The good thing with that is that you get a very tangible feedback on whether or not you're playing within the rules of the forum.

That sounds like it would be a great feature! There are a number of people on this forum that I would buy a virtual beer/wine/coffee etc for. I have to say that @boulderjohn would be on that list - he has hugely increased my knowledge of diving through his posts.

Heck, I'd buy him a real beer if he wanted one.