Most useful specialty courses

[jlcnuke]

If someone gets a provisional with GUE, do they have to pay an additional fee to come back and try again to get a pass?

I've heard that the answer to that is no, at least for the first re-try.

 

[seeker242]

There is no reason to have a training program with a "provisional pass" (they didn't pass or you'd pass them, this is a "you failed, but only kinda" and what the hell is that supposed to be??

Yes there is a reason to have a provisional. If a student has been instructed on how to do the skill, and the skill only requires more practice, further instruction is not required but only practicing the skill until it's good enough.

and there is no reason to have two sets of standards for the same class (rec vs tec)

Yes, there is a reason to have two sets of standards for the same class. One is for only recreational divers and the other is for aspiring technical divers. Recreational divers and technical divers are not the same thing yet both benefit from taking the class.

Have you seen the guy who "provisionally passed" his college calculus course? Or finished his calculus class with a "calc 2 pass"? No?

What physical skill is involved in doing calculus? That only requires more personal practice and not further instruction? None. Comparing a physical ability to an academic ability is comparing apples to oranges and it's a dishonest comparison.

 

[BDSC]

Yes, there is a reason to have two sets of standards for the same class. One is for only recreational divers and the other is for aspiring technical divers. Recreational divers and technical divers are not the same thing yet both benefit from taking the class.

Interesting. Are all students in the class taught the same set of skills and if so, how are rec students judges differently than tec students? Does the instructor just go a little easier on the rec student or maybe the rec students have a little easier skills to perform?

 

[jlcnuke]

Yes there is a reason to have a provisional. If a student has been instructed on how to do the skill, and the skill only requires more practice, further instruction is not required but only practicing the skill until it's good enough.



Yes, there is a reason to have two sets of standards for the same class. One is for only recreational divers and the other is for aspiring technical divers. Recreational divers and technical divers are not the same thing yet both benefit from taking the class.



What physical skill is involved in doing calculus? That only requires more personal practice and not further instruction? None. Comparing a physical ability to an academic ability is comparing apples to oranges and it's a dishonest comparison.

We can agree to disagree. A properly designed training curriculum trains the student to accomplish the skills, to the expected level to pass the course during the course itself. The reasons for not meeting those standards should only include:
1. The student is not capable of meeting the required proficiency (in knowledge or skill).
or
2. The student was not willing to put forth the expected effort to meet the required proficiency (in knowledge or skill).

There is no other acceptable reason for a properly designed training program to result in students not meeting the required proficiency at the end of the course (as poor course design or inadequate instruction are the remaining causes, and neither is acceptable). That the GUE course is designed expecting that the outcome will frequently not meet that criteria is a course design problem, and giving a "provisional pass" option is the incorrect way to fix that deficiency in my opinion as a person who gets paid to develop training programs.

That said, I replied on this topic because I was asked a specific question. I don't think this is the thread to discuss proper design or training curriculum or my opinions on the short-comings of any particular agency. If someone wants to make a separate thread on the subject I'll be happy to continue the conversation though.

 

[ChuckP]

Yes there is a reason to have a provisional. If a student has been instructed on how to do the skill, and the skill only requires more practice, further instruction is not required but only practicing the skill until it's good enough.



Yes, there is a reason to have two sets of standards for the same class. One is for only recreational divers and the other is for aspiring technical divers. Recreational divers and technical divers are not the same thing yet both benefit from taking the class.



What physical skill is involved in doing calculus? That only requires more personal practice and not further instruction? None. Comparing a physical ability to an academic ability is comparing apples to oranges and it's a dishonest comparison.

Can you perform the skill so that the task can be completed - pass. You shouldn’t have to be a dang runway model to achieve a certificate.

Two standards is two classes.

What’s the criteria? For hovering, you hit the bottom, you get a provisional, you can hover, you get a rec pass, you can remain spot on motionless for two minutes you get a tech pass...... come on now

I applaud the effort to make perfect cloned divers but that would never be for me. Diving is different all over the world requiring you to adapt to different situations let alone the difference in people. Blonde hair blue eyed diving only.....

 

[asmfish]

I am in the city.

We have some great local diving in the area. The more you dive the better you get!!

 

[seeker242]

Interesting. Are all students in the class taught the same set of skills and if so, how are rec students judges differently than tec students? Does the instructor just go a little easier on the rec student or maybe the rec students have a little easier skills to perform?

They teach the same thing so it would be plain dumb to have 2 separate classes. For example, proper horizontal trim is taught. Trim recreational is allowed maximum 30 degrees from horizontal trim, Tech is maximum of 20 degrees. Still the same thing, trim. They teach good bouyancy control. Recreational bouyancy precision is 5’ depth window of allowance. In other words, you can swing up or down 2.5’ and your still passing. Tech has a 3’ window of bouyancy precision. Still the same thing, bouyancy control.

 

[BDSC]

Thanks.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Can you perform the skill so that the task can be completed - pass. .

That sounds like "student didn't drown while performing skill. Pass!"

 

[Superlyte27]

Obviously GUE disagrees with me on that, and that's perfectly fine as it's their agency so they can do things how they want, even if it defies the way almost every formal training program in the world works.

Funny, their training and standards are unparalleled. It's obviously working.