Long-hose in the time of COVID-19

[Jcp2]

Shouldn't both regulators should be checked and working at the beginning of the dive? If that's done properly, then the thought process that the OOG diver gets the donor primary because it works really, and the secondary might not doesn't really apply, as they both should be working. There may be other reasons to donate a primary (long hose allows distance flexibility after donation better than a short hose is one guess of mine). I'm assuming recreational single tank OW diving within NDL times.

 

[Colliam7]

I am well aware of this theory, but it is not generally accepted everywhere.

True. There are different schools of thought, and that is acceptable. I happen to be a firm advocate / proponent of primary donate. That is how I dive. That is what I teach. But, I also ensure that I discuss with my buddy, BEFORE the dive, how I am configured and how I dive. It is not a matter that should cause contention or consternation.

Frankly, I don't plan to run out of air on a dive. I intend to be self-reliant. BUT, I do want to understand my buddy's configuration, just as I want my buddy to understand mine, 'just in case'.

The whole firefighter thing strikes me as a very poor analogy.

I agree with that view. It is a different environment, with different priorities. One of my regular dive buddies is a firefighter. We have discussed this very issue (that they are trained never to give up their gas supply) in detail. It does not represent an obstacle to our diving together. Rather, he pointed it out simply to explain why he has not heretofore been an advocate of primary donate. Notably, through our discussions he has become more interested in the primary donate configuration and process. That doesn't mean he will be changing his behavior as a firefighter.

I don't see a problem with both approaches being in existence, as long as the divers involved are aware of the differences. An OOA / LOA diver, with their wits about them, will in all likelihood follow their training, as Edward3c points out. And, if it is alternate donate, they will look for the buddy's alternate. If it is primary donate, they will expect to get the primary. A panicked diver - all bets are off. They will in all probability go for whatever they can see. If that happens to be a regulator in another diver's mouth, so be it. If that were to happen to me, and my primary reg is suddenly pulled from my mouth, I have time to put my bungeed alternate in. In fact, the purge cover on my primary is yellow (the cover on my bungeed alternate is black) to make it easier to see (and take, if needed).

 

[Storker]

I also ensure that I discuss with my buddy, BEFORE the dive, how I am configured and how I dive. It is not a matter that should cause contention or consternation.

Totally agree. I had less than two dozen dives under my weight belt when I first dived with someone using a LH/BO setup. We had a proper pre-dive chat, and he was pretty clear about which reg I'd receive if I needed gas. Even showed me the procedure.

Worked like a charm, removed any uncertainty and became a model for how I today discuss the dive with instabuddies who use a conventional PADI-type setup.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Totally agree. I had less than two dozen dives under my weight belt when I first dived with someone using a LH/BO setup. We had a proper pre-dive chat, and he was pretty clear about which reg I'd receive if I needed gas. Even showed me the procedure.

Worked like a charm, removed any uncertainty and became a model for how I today discuss the dive with instabuddies who use a conventional PADI-type setup.

On this I agree entirely, what matters is to have a good pre-dive evaluation of the equipment and procedures used by your buddy.
And to be prepared to dive with someone not using the same as you.
I see this can be a problem for DIR divers, as one of the strong points of DIR is to ensure that both equipment and procedures are strictly standardised and exactly the same in the whole group...
For me there is no problem diving with a guy or girl equipped with a primary designed to be donated, with a long (or veeery long) hose and a secondary which cannot be donated. Or conversely with a more common standard setup.
The problem which I have seen is the opposite, those DIR evangelists thinking that their is the only correct setup and procedure, and that anyone else MUST adhere to the same...
I love differences, strange setups, crazy guys, foreign cultures and habits, unbelievable food and drinks, people dressed (or undressed) in various ways, and instead I am quite suspicious of groups where everything must be done exactly in one, "right" way and you are not even allowed to discuss why...

 

[PfcAJ]

The risk, for the donor, is that, for any reason, the backup fails. If the buddy is my wife, I happily accept that risk.
If the buddy is an unknown, then I will FIRST get the backup in my mouth, test it for 2-3 breaths, and having verified that it is in good shape and I am not at risk, then, and only then, I will cautiously offer my primary to the buddy OOA. If during this additional time he is drown, I still have done the proper safe procedure, it is not my fault.
It is donating FIRST and searching for backup LATER which is questionable, and entirely unacceptable in a firefighter perspective.

These are unfounded fears.

it’s a regulator. It’s not fragile. They don’t mysteriously not work 20mins after it worked when you tested it.

 

[Angelo Farina]

These are unfounded fears.

it’s a regulator. It’s not fragile. They don’t mysteriously not work 20mins after it worked when you tested it.

You do not get the point. It is matter of priority. Temporal priority. Risk priority. First me, then the buddy.
Except the case the buddy is my wife, or my son, then their life comes before my one.
When young I was trained to be a bit selfish. You must be selfish, doing the firefighter. If you are not selfish, you die attempting to save others.
Once you become selfish, it is difficult to remove this from your behaviour, whatever thing your are doing. While driving, or while diving, or making any other activity.
Only true love can win your selfishness, changing the priority. I am not proud of being so selfish, but I was not born this way, I received a specific training for modifying my attitude towards others.

 

[Storker]

It is donating FIRST and searching for backup LATER which is questionable, and entirely unacceptable in a firefighter perspective.

I believe you may be overthinking this. Once upon a time, many moons ago, I got a used back inflate BCD for trial. It started me down the path to my current BP/W setup, but that's another story.

Anyways, true to my habit I tried out the new BCD at our regular training site. I was still using a PADI-style octo setup. At the safety stop, we did an OOG drill. Problem was, the shoulder D-ring on my new BCD wasn't located at the same spot as the D-ring on my previous BCD. When my buddy gave the OOG sign, I reached for my octo. It wasn't there. I reached for it again, and it persisted in not being there. Wanting to do the drill properly, I figured I had enough gas in my lungs to survive at least a minute without my primary in my gob, and donated my primary. After some fumbling, I was able to locate my secondary, and the whole drill went pretty well.

If you have your wits around you, and especially if you have a competent buddy who knows about buddy breathing, it shouldn't be a major problem.

 

[Angelo Farina]

If you have your wits around you, and especially if you have a competent buddy who knows about buddy breathing, it shouldn't be a major problem.

Sorry, too many "if" for me. Remember, I was made to become selfish...
So first I ensure that I have air, and then, perhaps, I will think how to provide air to the buddy.
I have nothing against donating the primary, but only after being breathing safely from the secondary one...

 

[PfcAJ]

There are some people in this world I just wouldn’t want to dive with.

today, I found one.

 

[Angelo Farina]

There are some people in this world I just wouldn’t want to dive with.

today, I found one.

Not offended, no problem.
On my side, I have no problem with a buddy who first makes himself safe. I always thought that is better to have one fatality than two. Even if the fatality is me...
But I know that many people perceive it as not honourable, they would not bear surviving to their buddy, not doing even the impossible attempting to save him, even at risk of their own life.
I understand their position, and I respect it.
I simply ask the same respect for my position, which, as clearly explained, is a bit different.