Future aka New Normal

[DownUnderwater Dan]

i have said it before and i will say it again ad nauseum. The 'noone will fly' doomsday scenario is based in nothing other than the desire to overly sensationalize the situation. the second people can fly, they will.Some budget carriers will go bust and someone else will pick up that route weeks later. I was on the first flight from Toronto to cancun and it was a full flight. All the rest o the flights that week were full. people are looking for the first 'exit' to diving. I booked a November 2020 trip to Papua today.. Divers are a hybrid of engineers and gamblers, they won't sit waiting for global 'all clear' .......the fear of missing out is greater than the fear of infection.. i dove internationally in june...i'll dive in internationally in july and august...i'll socially distance, Covid is not a scam, but it's also not the deathknell of travel.

if it gets more expensive, divers will still pay, just as i always say about insurance and better operations/better paid DMs..

Hang in there diveops! we're a comin!

Well said!

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

There's no way that I want to end up in hospital in Indonesia, most especially without another healthy person to be providing me support whilst I'm laying there trying to live. Even if such an angel existed, that's not going to happen during Covid.

Don't try to tell me otherwise. My father died in an Indo hospital.

Each to their own

But I'd rather be in a hospital in Brazil, than say the USA. It's free universal & hospital care for everyone including foreign visitors. I don't think any/many travel insurance policies cover pandemics after the fact. Probably $10's to $100's thousands for a hospital stay in USA

And by the way, many foreigners lives have been saved by the hard working dedicated doctors, surgeons, nurses in Indonesian hospitals

 

[Indah]

What does this say please?

Was about riots in Central Sulawesi. Protests against Chinese workers (total 500) coming.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

i have said it before and i will say it again ad nauseum. The 'noone will fly' doomsday scenario is based in nothing other than the desire to overly sensationalize the situation. the second people can fly, they will.Some budget carriers will go bust and someone else will pick up that route weeks later. I was on the first flight from Toronto to cancun and it was a full flight. All the rest o the flights that week were full. people are looking for the first 'exit' to diving. I booked a November 2020 trip to Papua today.. Divers are a hybrid of engineers and gamblers, they won't sit waiting for global 'all clear' .......the fear of missing out is greater than the fear of infection.. i dove internationally in june...i'll dive in internationally in july and august...i'll socially distance, Covid is not a scam, but it's also not the deathknell of travel.

if it gets more expensive, divers will still pay, just as i always say about insurance and better operations/better paid DMs..

Hang in there diveops! we're a comin!

It's actual truthful fact that divers are currently hopping on to full flights and full dive boats across the world. Divers are a positive bunch

I think that after covid, it'll actually attract more new divers and the younger generation into the water because people will appreciate nature & the oceans a lot more after being locked down & isolated

 

[Indah]

Each to their own

But I'd rather be in a hospital in Brazil, than say the USA. It's free universal & hospital care for everyone including foreign visitors. I don't think any/many travel insurance policies cover pandemics after the fact. Probably $10's to $100's thousands for a hospital stay in USA

And by the way, many foreigners lives have been saved by the hard working dedicated doctors, surgeons, nurses in Indonesian hospitals

Please do start be going on the quality of the medical care in Indonesia. I was unlucky enough to spend two times 10 days in a hospital here. The gross of the workers really do their best...which is often not that good. Any Indonesian who needs serious medical care and can effort it, will go to Malaysia or Singapore.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

Please do start be going on the quality of the medical care in Indonesia. I was unlucky enough to spend two times 10 days in a hospital here. The gross of the workers really do their best...which is often not that good. Any Indonesian who needs serious medical care and can effort it, will go to Malaysia or Singapore.

As I've said, & I'll say it again, many foreigner's lives have been saved thanks to the hard work & dedication of staff in Indonesian hospitals

 

[chillyinCanada]

True. Current asumption for Germany is that the number of people affected is 10x higher. There are multiple studys underway, with one randomised study in Munich currently perparing their findings based on anti-body-tests. As those have an issue with flase-positve responses due to the 4 other Coronaviridae prevalent in humans, they do run their tests multiple times with different methods to be as exact as possible with their findings it will take till end of July for a first paper.

Well that's Germany doing their best.

Indonesia doesn't have that ability.

 

[markmud]

i have said it before and i will say it again ad nauseum. The 'noone will fly' doomsday scenario is based in nothing other than the desire to overly sensationalize the situation. the second people can fly, they will.Some budget carriers will go bust and someone else will pick up that route weeks later. I was on the first flight from Toronto to cancun and it was a full flight. All the rest o the flights that week were full. people are looking for the first 'exit' to diving. I booked a November 2020 trip to Papua today.. Divers are a hybrid of engineers and gamblers, they won't sit waiting for global 'all clear' .......the fear of missing out is greater than the fear of infection.. i dove internationally in june...i'll dive in internationally in july and august...i'll socially distance, Covid is not a scam, but it's also not the deathknell of travel.

if it gets more expensive, divers will still pay, just as i always say about insurance and better operations/better paid DMs..

Hang in there diveops! we're a comin!

The 'none will fly' doomsday scenario is based in nothing other than the desire to overly sensationalize the situation. the second people can fly, they will.

I am one those people. My wife and I just got back from Key Largo Florida. We followed local laws about face coverings and allowing business employees to shoot us with an IR gun. We washed, sanitized, and maintained a 6 foot (2 m) physical distance from others (except on the dive boat). We all wore our face coverings on the dive boat; which was almost full everyday.

I would travel abroad, including Indonesia, if I did not fear getting stuck in a foreign country with crappy health care. The calculated IFR of around .04 for heathy and fit people under 60 is good enough reason for me. People who don't have a comorbidity or are not beyond fat, are not at much risk for death or acute symptoms.

I am contemplating a trip to one of the Carolinas to dive WW2 wrecks.

I hope I am not the anomaly; but I am willing to take that risk. I hope I already have immunity. If I get any communicable disease, I will isolate, no matter where I am.

Life is a gamble. I am lucky to be alive. I am lucky to be 60 y.o. I have always done things that have a small amount of risk (even death) associated with the activity. Including work and diving. Why would I shutter myself in a house and wait for a vaccine that may never come. My comorbid family members and friends are seeing me through glass or electronically. Exercise, eat well, and stay outdoors as much as possible.

The U.S. is being hit with another wave (3rd or 4th by my figures). Countries that have successfully locked down and avoided SARS-Cov-2, will be hit with it later.

Pay mother nature now or pay her later. I hope the medical systems around the world can handle the ongoing waves. It aint over.

Hang in there diveops! we're a comin!

Hear, hear, and cheers,
m

 

[chillyinCanada]

Each to their own

But I'd rather be in a hospital in Brazil, than say the USA. It's free universal & hospital care for everyone including foreign visitors. I don't think any/many travel insurance policies cover pandemics after the fact. Probably $10's to $100's thousands for a hospital stay in USA

And by the way, many foreigners lives have been saved by the hard working dedicated doctors, surgeons, nurses in Indonesian hospitals

As a Canadian, I'm well aware of the advantages of universal health care.

My father lived in Indonesia for 40 years. He was hospitalized more than once and for more than one reason, as can happen as people age. So yes, he had a couple of correct diagnoses but they completely missed the most obvious and the most deadly.

I've no doubt that there are dedicated people, as you say but . . .our family had to stay with him to ensure his care and to give him meals, often times having to sleep in the lounge or on a mat by his bed.

I'll speak to you no more about this, regardless of your response.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

As a Canadian, I'm well aware of the advantages of universal health care.

My father lived in Indonesia for 40 years. He was hospitalized more than once and for more than one reason, as can happen as people age. So yes, he had a couple of correct diagnoses but they completely missed the most obvious and the most deadly.

I've no doubt that there are dedicated people, as you say but . . .our family had to stay with him to ensure his care and to give him meals, often times having to sleep in the lounge or on a mat by his bed.

I'll speak to you no more about this, regardless of your response.

Missed obvious diagnoses' occur even in the best hospitals with the best health professionals, across the world