First of blog series for teaching neutrally buoyant and trimmed

[Doc]

I assumed you had reading comprehension skills.

You misunderstand. Let me try it a different way:

I can not find part 2 (and so on) where “ the other 2 blog posts” appear.

Link?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You misunderstand. Let me try it a different way:

I can not find part 2 (and so on) where “ the other 2 blog posts” appear.

Link?

Mea culpa, I did misunderstand. My expectation (which may be incorrect)!is that following post will be in the next two newsletters. Otherwise there’s be a single, longer post.

 

[TMHeimer]

Very good. All makes sense to me, and I think some OW students could handle the bulk of this first blog. I agree with you as well when you say it is your belief that many OW students aren't properly trained (not only because of the "on the knee" thing, but for other reasons too).

Your point about much frustration among new divers who fight with getting good buoyancy may have another reason as well as (or in addition to) poor training, overweighting, perhaps even a lack of having been shown how to do a weight check and having done one before the OW checkout dives. You can add all that together, but I think as big a factor for this frustration may be not enough "water" experience before taking scuba course (you know, one of my old pet peeves). If you are very comfortable being in the water to begin with it makes sense that a lot of shortcomings resulting from poor instruction can be overcome fairly easily.--Ie.-- you will realize you are overweight without doing like 50 dives before someone tells you. But again, that's just my own experience.

We were taught on knees, and possibly overweighted (don't recall a proper weight check, but was a long time ago). At one point after the course I did a proper check and it wasn't long before I had no real buoyancy problems to speak of even in very shallow water. So that can be thrown in there too.
Look forward to the next blog.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Very good. All makes sense to me, and I think some OW students could handle the bulk of this first blog. I agree with you as well when you say it is your belief that many OW students aren't properly trained (not only because of the "on the knee" thing, but for other reasons too).

Your point about much frustration among new divers who fight with getting good buoyancy may have another reason as well as (or in addition to) poor training, overweighting, perhaps even a lack of having been shown how to do a weight check and having done one before the OW checkout dives. You can add all that together, but I think as big a factor for this frustration may be not enough "water" experience before taking scuba course (you know, one of my old pet peeves). If you are very comfortable being in the water to begin with it makes sense that a lot of shortcomings resulting from poor instruction can be overcome fairly easily.--Ie.-- you will realize you are overweight without doing like 50 dives before someone tells you. But again, that's just my own experience.

We were taught on knees, and possibly overweighted (don't recall a proper weight check, but was a long time ago). At one point after the course I did a proper check and it wasn't long before I had no real buoyancy problems to speak of even in very shallow water. So that can be thrown in there too.
Look forward to the next blog.

I did a horrible job as an instructor in the beginning. It was here on SB where I first learned about these crazy ideas of neutral buoyancy, proper weighting, etc.., etc.. I even read about @The Chairman 's outrageous claim of being able to use just his lungs to descend from the surface to the bottom of a pool and ascend back. Eventually I was able to do it myself, but I had to really dial in that weight.

What I'd like new divers to come away with is, empty your BCD/wing at the end of your safety stop, dump gas until you are at 500 psi/50 bar and check if you sink, stay at a constant depth (slight rising/falling with one's breath) or rise to the surface. Second, be completely motionless and see if your feet sink below you. If they do those two things and address them gradually between dives, then eventually they'll get the correct amount of weight and also properly distributed.

 

[girlwithbigtanks]

Good luck. Most instructors don't GAF or have a clue. Despite the last 10 year or so of SB/social media/ organization articles presenting materials. The kneeling s*it is so ingrained recreational that despite me never once in the briefings, pool or ocean go on knees, my latest sm candidate who is recent Dm went to knees to problem solve. Uppy up time. We did have some minor gear adjustments to make but falling back to knees made it way harder.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Good luck. Most instructors don't GAF or have a clue. Despite the last 10 year or so of SB/social media/ organization articles presenting materials. The kneeling s*it is so ingrained recreational that despite me never once in the briefings, pool or ocean go on knees, my latest sm candidate who is recent Dm went to knees to problem solve. Uppy up time. We did have some minor gear adjustments to make but falling back to knees made it way harder.

I think achieving world peace is an easier endeavour than get all instructors on board to stop teaching on the knees.

Trying to do so is probably more painful than pounding a rusty spike through both my palms using my forehead as a hammer.

Probably more painful than biting down as hard as I can on a metal file and having someone place their foot against my head for leverage and yanking with all their might.

Also probalby more painful than ..... I think people get the idea.

 

[johndiver999]

I think achieving world peace is an easier endeavour than get all instructors on board to stop teaching on the knees.

Trying to do so is probably more painful than pounding a rusty spike through both my palms using my forehead as a hammer.

Probably more painful than biting down as hard as I can on a metal file and having someone place their foot against my head for leverage and yanking with all their might.

Also probalby more painful than ..... I think people get the idea.

Maybe your true calling is writing horror stories?

I thought the blog was acceptable. You used the term "float" several times where I think you were intending to convey the idea of being suspended in a neutral condition, rather than actually floating. But that is a minor detail that other people have apparently not noticed. Something that floats is lighter than the liquid it is immersed in.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Maybe your true calling is writing horror stories?

I thought the blog was acceptable. You used the term "float" several times where I think you were intending to convey the idea of being suspended in a neutral condition, rather than actually floating. But that is a minor detail that other people have apparently not noticed. Something that floats is lighter than the liquid it is immersed in.

Great point. I always think of floating midwater. That's always the tricky thing about communication. There's what is intended, and what is understood. Not always a match.

 

[TMHeimer]

I did a horrible job as an instructor in the beginning. It was here on SB where I first learned about these crazy ideas of neutral buoyancy, proper weighting, etc.., etc.. I even read about @The Chairman 's outrageous claim of being able to use just his lungs to descend from the surface to the bottom of a pool and ascend back. Eventually I was able to do it myself, but I had to really dial in that weight.

What I'd like new divers to come away with is, empty your BCD/wing at the end of your safety stop, dump gas until you are at 500 psi/50 bar and check if you sink, stay at a constant depth (slight rising/falling with one's breath) or rise to the surface. Second, be completely motionless and see if your feet sink below you. If they do those two things and address them gradually between dives, then eventually they'll get the correct amount of weight and also properly distributed.

I like your idea of doing the weight check at the safety stop. Yes I have heard it is better to do the check on a near empty tank and the end of a dive, but you mention at the safety stop (and some details), which I hadn't heard before.
I assume you would use a similar approach at 15 feet at the end of a shore dive.

I have only done 2 weight checks, both at the beginning of the dive (laziness), then add 5 pounds, etc. One right after OW course and the other after getting a new wetsuit. It makes sense to follow your recommendations-- particularly because once you get it right it's not going to change unless you gain/lose a ton of weight or drastically change your equipment. You don't have to keep doing it.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I like your idea of doing the weight check at the safety stop. Yes I have heard it is better to do the check on a near empty tank and the end of a dive, but you mention at the safety stop (and some details), which I hadn't heard before.
I assume you would use a similar approach at 15 feet at the end of a shore dive.

I have only done 2 weight checks, both at the beginning of the dive (laziness), then add 5 pounds, etc. One right after OW course and the other after getting a new wetsuit. It makes sense to follow your recommendations-- particularly because once you get it right it's not going to change unless you gain/lose a ton of weight or drastically change your equipment. You don't have to keep doing it.

Diving off a boat or from shore, safety stop depth doesn't change. If former students rent while on vacation, I advocate doing a rough weight determination, then fine tuning on every single dive. That's what I did before I was a pro and had a more methodical approach (and all my own gear).