What are good BC's?

[marchand]

Walter, I would post a most lovely response to your previous post which would rebut all of your points, but its is late and it just isn't worth it to me. All I'm going to say is that, with all due respect, I am in awe at how little you analyze the posts you respond to and how little thought you put into your response. I would suggest you start thinking of all the ways you could be wrong before you shoot your mouth off; there are lots of them in the last one.

 

[brandnew]

I would like to buy an argument please......

On a more serious note, thank you EVERYONE for the advice. I've done some looking and right now the zeagle stillitoe is on top for comfort, the ranger being a second.

Ernest

 

[djanni]

What fascinates me is that there seems to be a fairly common evolution in BCs, at least among those people who ever replace what they originally bought. That evolution is from jacket to back inflate to BP/W. You may want to go look at the "What did you buy that you regret?" thread for some stories.

That's conjecture isn't it?

Outside Scubaboard, the PNW and the groups you dive with, it seems your exposure to the type of BC that is commonly worn, is quite limited.

Maybe divers, in the places I dive, never evolve to the pinnacle of diving you've reached; i.e., the land of the bp/w.

 

[J.A.S.]

Hey Brandnew, welcome to the board and the diving world.

while i've never dove anything but a BP/W since certified. I would try renting a few different BC's and see which one you feel most comfortable with ( in water, rather than surface ). Maybe find someone who has a BP/W to let you try out and see what all the fuss is about.

figure out what kind of diving you want to do and maybe intend to do in the future. Finalize you answer with whom you'll be diving with the most so you can closely be aware of not only your equipment but your buddy's equipment as well.

don't jump into the purchase without solid research and advice. nothing stinks more in this sport than spending money on things you don't like.

with a grain of salt take all advice, some are wise comments, some are well ..just .002 worth like mines!

overall enjoy the underworld!


EDIT: to be useful: before i had decided on a bp/w, while searching for a BC, the last 2 at the top of the list were the Blackdiamond and the Brigade

 

[TSandM]

Don Janni, I know you don't like them. And you have to give me this: I don't pile onto these threads and immediately say, "Buy a BP/W!" I tell people to buy something that fits and is comfortable, and to look for features like double cambands and trim pockets.

But at least on this board, there are a LOT of people who have gone through several kinds of BCs, and ended up with a BP/W. There are a very few people who have tried a BP/W and gone back to what they were using before (you are one of them, I know). I know of NO ONE who started with a BP/W and sold it to replace it with something else.

Undoubtedly, there are a ton of people who bought a BC and still have it, and haven't ever felt the need to change. But when people DO change, they tend to go through a similar evolution. I just mention it to give new divers something to read and think about.

I have no vested interest in what kind of BC anybody dives. (pun intended)

 

[djanni]

Don Janni, I know you don't like them. And you have to give me this: I don't pile onto these threads and immediately say, "Buy a BP/W!" I tell people to buy something that fits and is comfortable, and to look for features like double cambands and trim pockets.

But at least on this board, there are a LOT of people who have gone through several kinds of BCs, and ended up with a BP/W. There are a very few people who have tried a BP/W and gone back to what they were using before (you are one of them, I know). I know of NO ONE who started with a BP/W and sold it to replace it with something else.

Undoubtedly, there are a ton of people who bought a BC and still have it, and haven't ever felt the need to change. But when people DO change, they tend to go through a similar evolution. I just mention it to give new divers something to read and think about.

I have no vested interest in what kind of BC anybody dives. (pun intended)

I've never said I don't like them. They're just not God's gift to diving like some, here on SB, like to suggest.

I do give you that. At least partially. You are more balanced these days.

As far as the evolution thingie goes... I imagine there's several tons of people who've replaced jackets with jackets, back inflates with back inflates and etc. Yet in the places where I dive, one sees very few bp/w's. That doesn't mean those people don't replace their bc from time-to-time but it sure indicates the style of bc they buy.

There probably is an evolution of sorts that takes place and I would put it this way: Although not a big percentage, there are people who are inclined toward some sort of technical diving; i.e., twin tanks and the like, cave and werck penetration and etc. and as those individuals move into those areas they tend to migrate toward the equipment considered more suitable to the challanges that go with that type of diving.

For the warm water wusses out there who are perfectly happy diving in clear water with single tanks a bp is about as needed as a hole in the head. Again, nothing wrong with a bp/w.

 

[maged_mmh]

ok, about the BC issue, apart from bashing:
how is ScubaPro knighthawk compares to zeagle ranger? apart from using doubles.

 

[cool_hardware52]

As far as the evolution thingie goes... I imagine there's several tons of people who've replaced jackets with jackets, back inflates with back inflates and etc.

The sad fact is most divers don't remain in the sport very long. Retention is a major problem for scuba. Most divers never replace their gear, BC included, because they abandoned the activity.

Those that continue to dive long enough to either out grow, or wear out their first BC, and purchase a 2nd BC are a small subset of divers. It is this group that tends to "evolve"

Yet in the places where I dive, one sees very few bp/w's. That doesn't mean those people don't replace their bc from time-to-time but it sure indicates the style of bc they buy.

We had this very debate many, many, many, times before.

The "percentage in use, or percentage sold" argument is pretty weak.

The fact that jackets / vest etc. out number BP&W's 100:1 or 1000:1 says nothing about the relative fitness of either design.

There are so many other factors that impact the % of each type sold or in use, not the least of which is distribution.

Do you not find it telling that in the last 3-4 years there have been 3-4 major new entries into the BP&W market? Hollis, Apex, XSScuba, Edge / Hog and probably a few more I missed? I wonder what they know that you don't?

For the warm water wusses out there who are perfectly happy diving in clear water with single tanks a bp is about as needed as a hole in the head.

Don, I'm happy you enjoy diving whatever way you choose, but I have many 100's of happy customers who prefer their BP&W for warm, clear tropical diving.

Tobin

 

[Walter]

The sad fact is most divers don't remain in the sport very long. Retention is a major problem for scuba. Most divers never replace their gear, BC included, because they abandoned the activity.

Those that continue to dive long enough to either out grow, or wear out their first BC, and purchase a 2nd BC are a small subset of divers. It is this group that tends to "evolve" ..........................

The "percentage in use, or percentage sold" argument is pretty weak.

The fact that jackets / vest etc. out number BP&W's 100:1 or 1000:1 says nothing about the relative fitness of either design.

There are so many other factors that impact the % of each type sold or in use, not the least of which is distribution.

Surprise! We're in 100% agreement.

 

[djanni]

The sad fact is most divers don't remain in the sport very long. Retention is a major problem for scuba. Most divers never replace their gear, BC included, because they abandoned the activity.

Those that continue to dive long enough to either out grow, or wear out their first BC, and purchase a 2nd BC are a small subset of divers. It is this group that tends to "evolve"

Evolve??? Isn't that an elitist remark. Thanks to our being in an election cycle the word "elitist" is heard often.

The "percentage in use, or percentage sold" argument is pretty weak.

Perhaps that depends on the side of the argument one stands on.

The fact that jackets / vest etc. out number BP&W's 100:1 or 1000:1 says nothing about the relative fitness of either design.

Wow! I had no idea the percentage could be as high as 1000:1. It's worse than I thought.

There are so many other factors that impact the % of each type sold or in use, not the least of which is distribution.

As mysterious as it seems at times, the market place dictates the distribution. While I give all due credit to the power of advertising, it just isn't the other way around.

Do you not find it telling that in the last 3-4 years there have been 3-4 major new entries into the BP&W market? Hollis, Apex, XSScuba, Edge / Hog and probably a few more I missed? I wonder what they know that you don't?

It's all in the spin isn't it. My guess is they just want to capitalize on more sales to a select market segment.

Don, I'm happy you enjoy diving whatever way you choose, but I have many 100's of happy customers who prefer their BP&W for warm, clear tropical diving.

Tobin

Thanks Tobin. That was nice of you to say. I'm not at all surprised you have owners who happily dive their bp/w's in warm, clear tropical waters. I'm happy for them and I'm happy for you.