BP/W checklist?

[Crush]

I don't want to go too far off topic, but is it common practice to dive with non ditch able weight?

When I was trained (recently) I was told to always have ditchable weight. I am not an expert, but I have read many posts on SB where members of the BP/w community seem to accept the notion of non-ditchable weight so long as you have sufficient redundant lift. This would mean a drysuit which is able to float you in the event of a catastrophic wing failure. Wetsuit diving (i.e., no redundant lift) would cause most to recommend ditchable weight. I learned recently of weight belt threading with a BP/w from Tortuga68 at http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/bu.../348910-another-bp-w-thread-weight-belts.html (post #3). I recently moved the ditchable rear trim weight pockets from my Zeagle Scout to my (new) BP/w - I hope to dive the BP for the first time this weekend.

I dive cold water. I found that 24# lift was just skating the edge with my 7mm two-piece wetsuit with gloves and hood on deeper dives. A 32# lift bladder should do you fine in any water with a single tank.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Thank you guys so much for the very detailed and informative posts!

I will be warm water recreational diving for a few years. My exposure will be a 5mm wetsuit and I will be using an AL80 single for the foreseeable future.

To reiterate some of the previously offered advice:

Check list:

Plate, appropriate size and material

Wing, correct capacity for your application

Harness, Complete, no missing optional extras

Means to secure the tank(s)

I don't want to go too far off topic, but is it common practice to dive with non ditch able weight?

What problem are you trying solve by ditching weight? Explore that and you may find that absolutes concerning ballast configurations quickly break down.

Tobin

 

[TSandM]

If you are primarily diving warm water, I'd go with a light plate and either a weight belt, or weight pouches on the waistband.

I think (and this is only my opinion) that it's probably a good idea for brand new divers to have some ditchable weight. I've read too many accident reports where people made it to the surface and subsequently went back under and drowned. Weight ditching is a way for a rescuer to ensure a diver in panic can remain on the surface (that's the ONLY purpose for it that I can see). With more experience, a diver can come up with strategies to manage lost buoyancy at the surface (up to and including removing the rig!)

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

I don't want to go too far off topic, but is it common practice to dive with non ditch able weight?

You should be able to swim to the surface even if you lose your BC. The worst time to lose your BC would be early in a deep dive since then you have the weight of the gas in your tank plus the loss of buoyancy due to wet suit compression. So with a 5 mm suit you might be ~12 pounds negative. If you can easily swim 12 pounds to the surface then you do not need ditchable weight (try it for yourself). Personally I would keep 4-6 pounds ditchable of the 12 or so pounds I would need. Weight belts are fine, you probably just got a really crappy one as a rental. Just get one with a decent buckle and webbing in good shape.

Oh and for your check list I would add a single tank adaptor. Some wings have those built in, but some do not, so it is a thing to check.

 

[vinegarbiscuit]

I used ditchable weight when learning to dive. I don't now. I have more than enough ballast from my 5 lb plate when I dive singles. I know I can swim my entire singles rig to the surface if need be (it's very important to check these things!), so I just don't bother with ditchable weight.

There are also some circs when having ditchable weight serve little purpose, or indeed can be a downright liability (caves, for instance), but that's another story.

 

[halocline]

I don't want to go too far off topic, but is it common practice to dive with non ditch able weight?

It is for me.

Having the ability to dump weight at the surface is a good thing, but as I said you can just take the weights out of the pockets and drop them. You don't need a quick-release to get rid of weights. If you are weighted correctly, at the beginning of the dive you should only be negative on the surface by the weight of the gas in your tank; any more, you're overweighted. Since as a new diver you're using a single tank, it's very unlikely that weight will exceed 5 lbs.

Now, you want your head out of the water, so that means being a few pounds positive, and in the case where you cannot inflate your wing, not a bad idea to be able to drop a few pounds.

The reason PADI emphasizes weight-ditching so much is because many new divers actually are in more danger at the surface than underwater. To me, this is primarily a training/experience issue, coupled with the unfortunate fact that many new divers are grossly overweighted instead of trained to dive with less weight.

There is basically no situation in which dumping weights at depth is likely to improve safety. At least for a conscious diver, and if you're unconscious at depth you have more problems than weight dumping.

I have seen quite a few incidents where new divers had runaway ascents due to quick-release weights accidentally falling off their BCs at depth. To me this negates any safety gained from having quick release weights at the surface.

 

[Bamabowtie]

The rental setup I have been diving is a 5mm wetsuit, Dive Rite jacket style BC, steel 77 cylinder, hood and weight belt with 4 lbs of soft weight in fresh water.

Is there any way to calculate how positive or negative you will be given different setups and for fresh and saltwater?

Once I get my gear (BP/W, AL80) and start diving in saltwater, I have no idea how much weight I would need?

 

[trappist]

Sex bolts are not really needed; I use a STA (single tank adapter); this bolts to the backplate, and "sandwiches" the wing between STA and backplate. The HOG wing can be used without a STA (it has the stabilizer ridges sewn into the center of the wing where the tank lays) but I feel the STA makes the tank absolutely stable... it is personal preference.

I know this is somewhat hijiacking the Original Post... excuse me for this ;o)

I also have a Hog32 (and I love it - great value for the quality !) and used STA when I was diving drysuit. Since using my semi-drysuit, I had way too much weight (the BP is sufficient for me with my bulky 119cf).

When you say that Sex bolts are not needed, how do you secure the STA to the wing ? Anything I used does not fit. can't use regular bolts as the y are too bulky and the tank doesn't rest anymore properly on the STA... The only solution, not even ideal I found was using stainless steel sex bolts (those with orings). Any other suggestion ? Now that I took off the STA, I'm planning on using 2 plastic ones to hold the wing in place when you take off the tank (I like it neat and well organized).

Divegearexpress has also quite a few good tips, Tobin is definitely THE person to talk to apparently no this forum (also learnt about him too late).
youtube can be an extraordinary resource too...

 

[txapacheguy]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed here. I think I am about to build a rig similar (if not identical) to the one described here. Thinking I will go with the Hog 32lb wing, SS plate and try to avoid the STA. I will probably be diving with a 6/7mm wetsuit/hood and an AL80 to begin with. The plan is to either use a separate weight belt or dive right pockets on the harness to hold whatever extra weight is necessary to keep me down. Do you guys see any issues with this? I like the idea of the bolt snaps to secure the SPG. Are you guys just snapping the spg hose onto the bolt snap, or using some kind of device (cord or rubber loop maybe) to secure it?

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

I know this is somewhat hijiacking the Original Post... excuse me for this ;o)

I also have a Hog32 (and I love it - great value for the quality !) and used STA when I was diving drysuit. Since using my semi-drysuit, I had way too much weight (the BP is sufficient for me with my bulky 119cf).

When you say that Sex bolts are not needed, how do you secure the STA to the wing ? Anything I used does not fit. can't use regular bolts as the y are too bulky and the tank doesn't rest anymore properly on the STA... The only solution, not even ideal I found was using stainless steel sex bolts (those with orings). Any other suggestion ? Now that I took off the STA, I'm planning on using 2 plastic ones to hold the wing in place when you take off the tank (I like it neat and well organized).

Divegearexpress has also quite a few good tips, Tobin is definitely THE person to talk to apparently no this forum (also learnt about him too late).
youtube can be an extraordinary resource too...

I'm using a Hammerhead II SS backplate, and heavy SS STA. The holes in the STA are countersunk to accept the heads of the bolts, (actually, screws) and a wing nut secures it. The head of the screws sit entirely "flush".

http://hammerheadbackplates.com/default.htm

"Sex bolts" are entirely different. The standard screw/wing nut that came with the Hammerhead STA is long enough, if you seat the STA on the wing properly (it may take some wiggling/pushing due to the sewn-in stabilizer rods on the wing center panel).

Best wishes.