What makes someone an "Advanced Scuba Diver"?

[MXGratefulDiver]

@TsandM So would you then describe your OW students as not having the skills or knowledge to safely/successfully complete dives according their training level? Or are you just fishing for compliments?

I believe she's simply pointing out that in some parts of the world those skills ... an understanding of safe diving practices, a careful mindset, and the ability to identify conditions that are beyond their capabilities ... are so essential that it would be irresponsible to certify someone who doesn't possess them.

We don't do guided dives here ... someone coming out of OW needs to have the ability to plan and execute their own dive safely and without supervision. If they cannot do that, then the instructor has failed to achieve the objectives of essentially every agency's entry-level class ... which is to train a diver to safely dive in conditions similar to those in which they were trained.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

Yes, Bob nailed it.

But there's a chasm between saying, when asked about potential hazards, that current on a dive site can be a factor... and knowing because you checked that your site averages 1-2 knots towards a problematic direction, recognizing instantly upon dropping in that things feel a lot more like 4 knots, realizing what that means for your dive, and acting accordingly.

That's the kind of thing that comes with experience, for sure. And I think this begins to get to the nub of the problem with the definition. If I have a diver with poor diving skills who has enough experience to recognize the current turning means "get out of here", is he advanced? If I have a diver who can hold a midwater stop within 18" with no mask on, but only has 50 dives, is he advanced?

To me, "advanced" ought to mean possessing skills and knowledge well beyond the norm. Since the skills of diving are really fairly limited and simple, once the diver has good buoyancy control, control of his trim, and the ability to move through a dive site without damaging it, we're down to knowledge and judgment as the criteria for "advanced".

 

[Blue Sparkle]

@TsandM So would you then describe your OW students as not having the skills or knowledge to safely/successfully complete dives according their training level? Or are you just fishing for compliments?

Here is how it sounded to me:

1) You said that, to you "having safe diving practices, mindset and understanding of diver safety." made someone an "Advanced scuba diver."

2) TSandM said that she saw those qualities as basic OW qualification (for her, and by logical extension, all OW divers), not special "advanced" traits.

3) Now you are asking if she's saying her OW students don't have those things? That confuses me.

 

[ajduplessis]

@TsandM so based on you previous post advanced is down to knowledge and judgement. Pretty much the same thing because you can't do the one without the other (if you don't have the knowledge how can you judge). Now back to my comment. Firstly it's a view and opinion based on that if you understand diving and what makes it safe (thus having the knowledge which will also help make good judgemet calls) you are well on your way to falling into my definition of advanced. Does a solo diver with 2000 dives who dives an unknown site alone fall into advanced? Not by my definition or most others. Does a newly certified OW student who declines a dive because it's outside of his knowledge/undestanding fall into advanced. Yes because he did the right thing!!

Why dive safety caused so much debate is amazing!

 

[ajduplessis]

Here is how it sounded to me:

1) You said that, to you "having safe diving practices, mindset and understanding of diver safety." made someone an "Advanced scuba diver."

2) TSandM said that she saw those qualities as basic OW qualification (for her, and by logical extension, all OW divers), not special "advanced" traits.

3) Now you are asking if she's saying her OW students don't have those things? That confuses me.

No you just missed the sarcasm! My apology for the confusion.

 

[DaleC]

Does a solo diver with 2000 dives who dives an unknown site alone fall into advanced? Not by my definition or most others. Does a newly certified OW student who declines a dive because it's outside of his knowledge/undestanding fall into advanced. Yes because he did the right thing!!

This makes absolutely no sense and I think very few would agree with it if they could look past their need to promote certain dogma.

Acknowledging that you lack skill does not equal being an "advanced" anything. If this were the case then I would be an advanced brain surgeon and nuclear physicist (oh wait, I actually am). It just means you possess a basic character trait called self honesty. Let's keep these things in perspective. You can be as self honest as you want and still be a total klutz as a diver - I'm living proof.

And just because someone chooses to dive an unknown site alone does not negate the fact that they may very well possess a high degree of skill. Just because you are not comfortable with it doesn't mean it's wrong. I believe Sheck Exley dove to nearly 1000' alone, as did Nuno Gomez; would you consider them advanced?

 

[Brendon]

[h=2]What makes someone an "Advanced Scuba Diver"?[/h]
Well that term really does not apply, if you are refering to a card that may state that lol... Its more like an advanced license to learn. I have met some instructors that I still believe are not advanced divers. With that said I also believe that time away from this activity can cause many to revert back to passport divers... I think c-cards should have an experiation date on them just like 02 provider cards.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

...Does a solo diver with 2000 dives who dives an unknown site alone fall into advanced? Not by my definition or most others...

...Why dive safety caused so much debate is amazing!

So, you are claiming to know "most other's" definitions? That is often what causes "much debate."

I fairly regularly dive unknown sites solo the first time. Sometimes, there is other divers "info" to work with, but not always.

For three years I worked the Wailea resort dive gigs, with DPV's at my disposal. My employers encouraged me to tool around solo when there were no customers, to learn the surrounding terrain. During the winters, when humpback whales are often passing by within a half mile of shore, I would often take large tanks, scooter cruise straight out from shore for 25 minutes and then just "wander my way back" to shore, hoping for a close encounter.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/hawaii-ohana/204383-carthaginian-shore.html

Gallery moved to ...

Carthaginian 007 - halemano's Photos | SmugMug

After perhaps a hundred such dives, I borrowed my last Wailea resort employer's best scooter and made the above linked dive. If I had missed the Carthaginian I would have just "wandered my way back" to shore. I had never made any shore or boat dives within 5 miles of that location, but the safety risk was pretty much the same as with all those South Maui solo scooter dives; and I took a pony, for added safety.



I have recently moved to a location with many, many acres of unknown to me terrain, and I solo it nearly every week, learning it in order to guide it for divers less advanced than me.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

What makes someone an "Advanced Scuba Diver"?

Well that term really does not apply, if you are refering to a card that may state that lol... Its more like an advanced license to learn.

I know I probably sound like a broken record here, but are you referring to the "AOW" card? If so, that's completely different, as it is an Advanced Open Water card. Not an "Advanced Diver" card.

The OW modifier after the A signifies that it's the advanced version of a beginning certification (OW), akin to saying "advanced beginner." (Whereas this thread is discussing "Advanced scuba divers.")

Blue Sparkle

PS: If there is an actual "Advanced Diver" certification card, and that is what you are referring to, then please never mind what I said.

 

[Brendon]

I know I probably sound like a broken record here, but are you referring to the "AOW" card? If so, that's completely different, as it is an Advanced Open Water card. Not an "Advanced Diver" card.

The OW modifier after the A signifies that it's the advanced version of a beginning certification (OW), akin to saying "advanced beginner." (Whereas this thread is discussing "Advanced scuba divers.")

Blue Sparkle

PS: If there is an actual "Advanced Diver" certification card, and that is what you are referring to, then please never mind what I said.

Oh boy thats funny...The title of the thread is exactly what I listed in my above comment, which I copied from the OP to give an answer that really was nothing but a pun. I really dislike the phrase advanced scuba diver... Its really a joke and so finite at the same time I just dont get it. To answer your question, YES there is an advanced scuba diver card. Its ment to be the same a AOW but its called Advanced Scuba Diver...