Have not seen this done before!

[outofofficebrb]

I am not surprised. Copying @Wingy. I don’t think she will be surprised, either. I dived with them back in 2016 and was surprised at all the positive reviews they had on TripAdvisor. This one is a red flag to me.

 

[MichaelMc]

Apparently Top DIve has a bad rep. I know nothing about them.

But say an operator were to offer free nitrox classes, supervised their students use of nitrox, always walked students/customers through the analysis of their tanks, picked shallow dive sites, did dives for extra safety as air on computers, with optional test and certification for the agency fee. How would it differ from this beyond the description of brief overview of benefits/risks? Is there a required sequencing of instruction topics and dives?

ETA: Apparently people saw this done back in 2004: PADI's new Discover Nitrox cert

 

[outofofficebrb]

Apparently Top DIve has a bad rep. I know nothing about them.

But say an operator were to offer free nitrox classes, supervised their students use of nitrox, always walked students/customers through the analysis of their tanks, picked shallow dive sites, did dives for extra safety as air on computers, with optional test and certification for the agency fee. How would it differ from this beyond the description of brief overview of benefits/risks? Is there a required sequencing of instruction topics and dives?

It then needs to be done that way. This was far from it. From the sounds of what the OP shared, it was more like a dive briefing and “by the way” and they were all given dive computers and told they were going to dive nitrox. The instructional material, test, and knowing how to analyze their tanks and understanding the ramifications of not having an accurate result has gone completely by the wayside here, along with the possible complications and dangers of nitrox and oxygen toxicity.

 

[Joneill]

I recently did two 2 tank dives with Top Dive in Fakarava and Bora Bora, French Polynesia, on a Windstar cruise dive excursion, and experienced an unusual approach to the use of Nitrox. We were on a dive boat with eight divers, with me being the only Nitrox certified diver in the group, and was surprised when the DM/Instructor briefed that everyone would be using Nitrox for the dives. A very brief explanation of how Nitrox differed from air was given, and with the explanation they always used Nitrox because of the distance to a chamber. I was not overly concerned by their procedure because the dive profiles being briefed would not approach NDLs for air or O2 toxicity for Nitrox with a 35 and 32 setting. Obviously I set my computer for the Nitrox, and all the other divers were given wrist computers, but it was obvious none of the other divers had a clue about using the computer. In addition, because of the way Nitrox was briefed, the other divers were left with the impression Top Dive was going to give them a Nitrox cert after the dives, but I quickly assured them that was not going to be the case, and it was obviously an in house procedure for their dive op. Maybe this is common in that part of the world, but when diving with Paul Gauguin a couple years ago, and with Hemisphere Sub at Raiatea on this trip, air was standard issue, unless the diver was certified for Nitrox and requested it. This is just info for those planning on using Top Dive in Polynesia.

Yup - I saw that done on a 3 tank dive in Turks and Caicos - two non Nitrox-certified divers were put on Nitrox after a briefing on it (reduced MOD was highlighted as was the potential for Ox tox if you exceeded it). They watched their tanks get measured and their computers were adjusted for the measured O2 %. It was presented as the way to get reasonable NDL's on the last dive (TC dives tend a little deeper). It was a small group - only 6 divers total.

 

[Wingy]

Major bends in Rangiroa leads to a $7.8 million settlement

 

[KeithG]

The situation seems very strange: they are giving away precious Nitrox that they could be charging a premium for!

So the big question in my mind is : why is Nitrox the answer to their problem?

If they are really worried about safety then it is much simpler to just limit the depth / time of the dives. One of the vacation boat dive ops we use in the Caribbean sets a 50ft depth limit on the afternoon dive (60 minute time limit). No big deal in that case since there is lots to see between 20 & 50 feet.

Maybe it is really a logistics issue? Just fill every tank with the same gas is simple. they once had a diver ask for Nitrox and now everybody gets it?

Or maybe this is just some crazy idea dreamed up by a wacko and can not be justified using common sense?

 

[Wingy]

Covering their arses - "Look it says here we were given instruction on nitrox diving before we descended on scubaboard and TripAdvisor Your Honour" - and look how many brilliant reviews we get. Cruise ship gigs & island bulk passes in my uneducated mind would be about the only reason TD are still in business.

It actually surprises me that people travel and want to experience FP culture, yet fail to even look at French ops. I've never had trouble emailing or even FB anyone anywhere in French Polynesia. It's not a third world country. There's one big ass telecommunications cable running into the Pass at Rangiroa...I know because I thought it was either rope or a fossilised lava flow from the atolls collapse. Finding it to be "rope" I stupidly gave it a tug being a bit of a garbage collector underwater. At the end of the dive I was asked if there was any reason I wanted to disconnect Rangiroa from the world

I think the only problem you would have emailing anywhere in FP would be the Austals.

Air has always been the standard for me in FP - no one even mentioned Nitrox. Glad you had a good time anyway and all went well

 

[Kharon]

... I'm one that thinks Nitrox should be taught with OW, and not an additional fee to PADI, SSI, etc...

Nitrox is too complicated and an unnecessary addition to OW. During my OW class they covered Nitrox enough to explain the very basics so we understood what it was and some of the parameters when diving it. It was a great introduction with enough informatiion for us to decide whether it was a course we wanted to take.

When I took the SDI Nitrox course there was a lot to get down as we had to work everything through on tables and many dive situations, many repeat dives (up to 4) with varying SI's, depths, and a few gotcha's - violating the MOD, exceeding CNS exposure, and PO2.

It was a lot to take in in a stand alone course. Adding all that to OW would be total information overload.

After taking the course I decided, for various reasons, that I didn't want to go through all the extra procedures and keeping track of MOD and CNS. The way I dive, it's just unnecessary. I'm glad that I took the course. I just don't want to be bothered using Nitrox. I'd bet a lot of OW students would be the same.

 

[stuartv]

Nitrox is too complicated and an unnecessary addition to OW. During my OW class they covered Nitrox enough to explain the very basics so we understood what it was and some of the parameters when diving it. It was a great introduction with enough informatiion for us to decide whether it was a course we wanted to take.

When I took the SDI Nitrox course there was a lot to get down as we had to work everything through on tables and many dive situations, many repeat dives (up to 4) with varying SI's, depths, and a few gotcha's - violating the MOD, exceeding CNS exposure, and PO2.

It was a lot to take in in a stand alone course. Adding all that to OW would be total information overload.

After taking the course I decided, for various reasons, that I didn't want to go through all the extra procedures and keeping track of MOD and CNS. The way I dive, it's just unnecessary. I'm glad that I took the course. I just don't want to be bothered using Nitrox. I'd bet a lot of OW students would be the same.

That is sort of unfortunate. Your Nitrox course went well above and beyond the requirements. That part is good. The unfortunate part is that it left you with the impression that Nitrox is too complicated (to add to OW).

I have mixed feelings about the OP. One the one hand, I generally do not agree with taking people on dives that are outside of their training and experience. On the other hand, it is hard for me to identify any significant risk in the scenario presented. A hard bottom to ensure no chance of exceeding MOD. Analyzing tanks and showing the diver the analysis. Overall profiles limited to ensure no significant chance of exceeding O2 exposure limits.

You can run it down by calling it a "trust me" dive, but, as far as I'm concerned, diving on an unanalyzed tank that is alleged to be air is not really any different. I have seen it happen that a well-run shop still had someone mess up at the air fill station and connect the air and Nitrox banks, thus contaminating both. It was caught before anyone got any erroneous fills. But, who is to stay that, at any given fill station, something similar couldn't happen and someone end up leaving with a tank that they believe is air but actually has Nitrox in it?

 

[Brian G]

While I understand the issue with a dive op treating nitrox like it is not something special, I don't see how this particular set of dives could have been dangerous due to the nitrox. Am I missing something? Hard bottom at 70', computers set for the oxygen concentration (even if they were left at air the dive would have been safe). No deco. Yes, it's a bad idea, and yes I would categorize the dive op as foolish. I think the danger lies in the divers thinking that nitrox is not something to concern oneself with. Given that most divers never check that the gas in their tank ISN'T nitrox and assume it's air, it might be a good idea to put some basic nitrox info in to AOW materials.