Drysuit diving and considering weight belt

[W W Meixner]

Well apparently it wasn't "obviously" anything. I don't know what you would find bombastic about my comments. The OP asked for suggestions. I gave him several. And I suspect that the vast majority of people diving dry would agree with them.

Anyway, if you feel that random, coddled-together gear figurations are the best option, you're "obviously" welcome to you opinion...

We do agree that gear isn't a good metric for selecting a dive buddy.

Not to discount Storker...but...

This isn't a cookie cutter sport...no two divers kit up the same way...or with the same gear...

As far as buddies...I like the buddy that I look at in the mirror...

I usually seem to be the last one back on board...I find some complaining...usually about the cold...some tinkering...usually because something wasn't right...usually too positive/too negative...asking who has ballast they're not using...or my HP spool is leaking...or my bailout bottle harness broke...

I smile...enjoy the surface interval quietly ...and wait for the hour to pass anticipating the next dive site...content with myself...

All tolled...these days I find myself spending $250/$300 a dive...I keep tools spares on board to make quick repairs/adjustments...if all I want to do is complain about something...I'll stay home and watch the international news...

Best...

W...

 

[Stoo]

This isn't a cookie cutter sport...like two riders on identical Harleys...I like the hot rod show concept...where everybody's take on what looks best on four wheels is a little different....

As I said in my rebuttal... ;-)

The OP was looking for suggestions for ways to add more weight. As you and I discussed offline, maybe "more lead" isn't actually his problem, but I gave him the benefit of knowing what he's talking about.

My suggestions are based on 44 years and 5500 dives, the VAST majority of which were in drysuits in frigid water. There must be a reason why I wear what I wear and all the people I dive with wear similar configurations. It's not the GUE "let's match" approach. It's based on hundreds of years of accumulated diving experience and tens of thousands of dives. These dives cover every type of under the sun... (I should perhaps add that I don't wear a DUI harness locally, only when I dive west.)

I couldn't give a rat's patooties what someone wears diving. Yellow split fins, toss on a pink snorkel and use a spare air for all I care.

All I was doing is answering the OPs question with what I KNOW works.

He can take the advice, or he can ignore it.

I have no idea why Storker felt he had to get a little snotty. Maybe he doesn't do Monday's well. I certainly don't hold it against him at all and I value his opinion.

 

[abnfrog]

right on stoo !!! im still in that Viking (20 plus years ) but I have owned a dozen different suits , I get a kick how all the non "pros " love to tell you your doing it wrong after all the dives we "oldies have done ".................... I wrote n the dry suit course for 2 agencies and the thing I teach in them is there are pros and cons to EVERY suit you learn that in my classes then decide whats best for your type of diving

 

[CT-Rich]

I guess this is a thinly veiled shot at me, but you won't get any argument from me. Lot's of people use lots of gear configurations and make it work. I also believe some think they have everything dialed but it's only because they haven't had an opportunity to try some other configuration.

I'll be my own example: For years I only dove in vulcanized rubber drysuits. My first exposure to diving dry was in a commercial environment and the company supplied Vikings. Awesome suit in every way I believed. Then I started regular trips to the west coast to dive and that meant flying. A Viking Pro suit weighs I dunno, 200 pounds or something. (>>sarcasm<<). I decided to buy a tri-lam suit to use as a travel suit. What I discovered is that (a) it weighed about 1/3 what the Viking did, but also that it was a dream to dive in. Flexible, light. I honestly had no idea that it would make my diving so much more enjoyable. I was even willing to put up with the fact that I got somewhere between damp and soaked on every dive. (That's a whole story on its own).

Anyway, back to the point of my earlier comments and your "shot". The OP is having a specific problem in that he can't seem to hang enough weight on his body. I don't know why that is. Maybe he's a big guy. Maybe he's using a 7mm drysuit. It doesn't matter. He wanted suggestions as to how he could add weight to his gear configuration. So I suggested some:

1. Ditch the BCD because the pockets can't hold the lead he feels he needs. Use a SS backplate... it adds another what, 10 pounds?
2. Use a DUI harness. The things hold up to 40 pounds in ditchable weight.
3. Where possible, use steel tanks. They sink more. I have no idea if the OP owns tanks or rents. If he rents, he should rent steel to help with his "problem". If he owns 4 Alu 80s, I'm not suggesting he dump them, but he might.

Anyway, that's it. If someone wants to wear some configuration that isn't working for them that's up to them. I merely stated what he might do, what works for me. Coincidentally, pretty much everyone I dive with dives with a similar configuration for the simple reason it works well.

I was the one who got the ball rolling and I think Storker was just going along with my thinking.

A dry suit is a hefty chunk of change for a recreational diver with kids in college etc. I don’t rally disagree with any of the gear recommendations you made, but the can add up pretty quick. $1-2000 for the Drysuit. A set of steel tanks, new, 800-1000. DUI harness $125, BP/W $500, RocK boots $100.

It can add up pretty quick. I was looking for my steel tanks for about two years before they turned up used at a good price. I have a back inflate BCD, I am not changing it until I feel it has reached the end of its life. Plenty of recreational divers are only going to upgrade one or two pieces a year. The OP asked about weights, not about completely redoing his rig.

Your original post, which I was responding to, came across as “my way or the highway” statement. I doubt you intended it to, but it did (a little). Your explanation here is much more... nuanced.

 

[CT-Rich]

As I said in my rebuttal... ;-)

The OP was looking for suggestions for ways to add more weight. As you and I discussed offline, maybe "more lead" isn't actually his problem, but I gave him the benefit of knowing what he's talking about.

My suggestions are based on 44 years and 5500 dives, the VAST majority of which were in drysuits in frigid water. There must be a reason why I wear what I wear and all the people I dive with wear similar configurations. It's not the GUE "let's match" approach. It's based on hundreds of years of accumulated diving experience and tens of thousands of dives. These dives cover every type of under the sun... (I should perhaps add that I don't wear a DUI harness locally, only when I dive west.)

I couldn't give a rat's patooties what someone wears diving. Yellow split fins, toss on a pink snorkel and use a spare air for all I care.

All I was doing is answering the OPs question with what I KNOW works.

He can take the advice, or he can ignore it.

I have no idea why Storker felt he had to get a little snotty. Maybe he doesn't do Monday's well. I certainly don't hold it against him at all and I value his opinion.

No one want to see a spare air....

 

[Stoo]

I was the one who got the ball rolling and I think Storker was just going along with my thinking.

A dry suit is a hefty chunk of change for a recreational diver with kids in college etc. I don’t rally disagree with any of the gear recommendations you made, but the can add up pretty quick. $1-2000 for the Drysuit. A set of steel tanks, new, 800-1000. DUI harness $125, BP/W $500, RocK boots $100.

It can add up pretty quick. I was looking for my steel tanks for about two years before they turned up used at a good price. I have a back inflate BCD, I am not changing it until I feel it has reached the end of its life. Plenty of recreational divers are only going to upgrade one or two pieces a year. The OP asked about weights, not about completely redoing his rig.

Your original post, which I was responding to, came across as “my way or the highway” statement. I doubt you intended it to, but it did (a little). Your explanation here is much more... nuanced.

Well it wasn't a complicated question, it didn't require a complicated answer.

And I don't disagree with anything you're saying, other than your prices are a little light. Up here in Canada, a higher end suit (DUI/SANTI) is $3K plus.

Having said that, the OP already had a drysuit. I don't presume to know anything about the OPs finances. He could be Richard Branson for all I know.

And regarding your comment about "redoing his rig", he can add lead two ways... a crappy way and a proper way. I've seen people with lead duct taped to tanks, ankle weights around valves, drysuit pockets stuffed etc. It works. It completely works. Buoyancy isn't complicated. However, any of those things are counter-productive to obtaining a proper profile in the water and so on. All I suggested was replacing his BCD with a wing and plate. And possibly start using steel tanks. If he rents tanks, the cost difference is negligible. If he hasn't got tanks, buying steel rather than aluminum is a solid advantage, when he's ready. I didn't recommend doubles. I pointed out that some people with doubles use V-weights. Starting to use doubles is an expensive way to sink better.

Had the guy asked about adding lead and not spending much of anything to do so, then I'd have recommended duct tape and zip--ties.

Anyway, I'm done with this.

 

[Storker]

Your original post, which I was responding to, came across as “my way or the highway” statement.

That makes two of us. And I'm a bit allergic to those.

Up here, virtually everyone dives dry. Many use a (compressed) neoprene suit, which is quite a bit more affordable than a trilam plus a good undersuit. The typical diver will be using a jacket BCD single tank rig and a neo drysuit because neo suits are the most affordable ones, and they've taken their OWD in jacket BCDs.

Now, many of us who can afford to - and are willing to - spend a bunch of money on their hobby often end up with a trilam suit, proper undergarments, a BP/W, and quite possibly a rec twinset like a D8.5x232 or a D7x300 (about 140 cu.ft, or a double 70 in your units). But rec diving with more conventional gear - even in a drysuit - is good enough for a lot of people, and with the typical single tank of 95-105 cu.ft, it isn't particularly difficult to get close to - or over - the NDL if you're diving air.

While someone for whom diving is a huge part their life might choose to spend the money needed to go all the way to the trilam-BP/W-twinset gear config, I know a bunch of folks who dive a neoprene-jacket BCD-single tank gear config and aren't much hampered by their gear in the diving they do.

 

[Kate K]

Ditch the BC with pockets. Replace it with a BP/W. Spring for a stainless BP. The DUI harness is awesome if you need a lot of weight. If you aren't diving with a steel tank, start.

I dive doubles up here 100% of the time. It's partly because it adds a bunch of weight to my buoyancy "system". Especially buoyant friends incorporate a V-weight between tanks...

I think I'm just going to add the DUI Weight Belt; I don't need MORE weight, I just need to spread it out a bit. Plus I'm not looking to replace my BC; it's in good condition, fits, and I am familiar with it.
(besides, just adding the weight belt works best with my budget, lol)

 

[scubadiver888]

I dive wet only (7 mill farmer john). Why would weighting be any different for a drysuit (I've never dived dry so have no experience with the weighting)?

If you are wearing a wetsuit, the buoyancy is coming from the air bubbles trapped in the neoprene. If you are wearing a trilam drysuit, you have to add air to the drysuit in order to prevent it from squeezing you. Not enough air, you literally get squeezed. It can actually be painful if you add no air to the suit. With a wetsuit, the squeeze isn't as big an issue and the amount of air in the bubbles of a wetsuit is relatively small when compared to the huge bubble inside your drysuit. Think about it, I'm going to add air from my ankles to my neck. It is going to be one huge bubble. Also, your undergarments will hold a layer of air in them (thicker the garment, the more air it will hold). This layer of air in the garment is what keeps you warm. So the thicker the garment the more buoyant you will be.

I've never used neoprene or crushed neoprene suits. I don't know if they require a lot more weight.