What makes one regulator better than another?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'd lay money on not being able to tell which reg I'm breathing from (cheap crap excepted).

Pretty much. Though there could be some differences that show themselves at 300 feet. That's what I've heard about the Atomic M1 really shining. But those are rebreather depths in my opinion.

All I want is a reg that works (i.e. conforms to EN250/whatever) and a comfy mouthpiece which is the only material difference between regulators.

Pretty much. There is some difference in materials used that can affect servicing intervals, failure rates (as EVERYTHING fails eventually), etc. but that needs to be quantified as well.

 

[Open Ocean Diver]

The car analogy, often used by dive shop sales staff, is very weak, to the point of being nonsensical. Cars are very complex machines that have to do all sorts of things well, and are directly responsible for safety in a crash. Newer cars are generally more reliable with all sorts of safety features. Regulators are just basic valves, and if you are diving correctly, (i.e. with a buddy or other form of alternate air source) then their failure is an inconvenience, nothing more.

The one aspect of the car analogy that has any relevance at all is the fact that some people buy (or sell) cars based on self image and/or narcissism, and some divers (and dealers) do the same with regulators.

I would agree if I were just talking about static devices… open and closed but the valves were talking about our dynamic, spring sensitivity, various components make a difference on how well they breath don’t you think?

 

[Lorenzoid]

I would agree if I were just talking about static devices… open and closed but the valves were talking about our dynamic, spring sensitivity, various components make a difference on how well they breath don’t you think?

I would say not a difference great enough to be perceptible by most of us (except maybe at extreme depths like 300 feet, as Kosta mentioned). Springs and valves of the types used in regs are pretty darn simple things.

 

[Wibble]

I would agree if I were just talking about static devices… open and closed but the valves were talking about our dynamic, spring sensitivity, various components make a difference on how well they breath don’t you think?

They've all got to conform to "the standards" which is EN250. This will specify how it should work under different conditions.

The main thing is there's "cold water" regulators and "warm water" regulators. Cold can work in warm, but warm cannot (should not) be used in cold -- as they freeze and freeflow.

The simple way for this is to look at what the technical divers who actually use these regulators in deep, cold and dirty conditions (silt, sand, other muck). If diving deep, say to 300'/90m, you must have kit that works; in the case of a rebreather, you've all your bailout cylinders. If on open circuit you've backgas and all other decompression cylinders / cave stages. Divers diving these depths won't trust any old regulators; they want proven regs and will tend to be quite conservative in their choices.

Should also mention the 400lb gorilla of rebreather diving: a carbon dioxide hit which could leave one sucking incredible amounts of gas from the bailout cylinder - using a SAC of 60 litres/min (about 4 times normal SAC), which if at 90m/300', this will be 600 litres/min, i.e. draining an Ali80 in 4 minutes!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

They've all got to conform to "the standards" which is EN250. This will specify how it should work under different conditions.

Something to dig into later. Not light reading from my brief glance at it.

 

[Wibble]

Something to dig into later. Not light reading from my brief glance at it.

Breathing performance of regulators - Wikipedia

Did try to find the actual EN250 specification, but it's behind some paywall. Yay for open standards!

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Breathing performance of regulators - Wikipedia

Did try to find the actual EN250 specification, but it's behind some paywall. Yay for open standards!

Yes, that was the link to which I was referring.

 

[halocline]

I would agree if I were just talking about static devices… open and closed but the valves were talking about our dynamic, spring sensitivity, various components make a difference on how well they breath don’t you think?

There are definitely differences between how various regulators breathe, and if you're a regulator geek like I am, that is an interesting kind of side-hobby. But they all work as long as they are in decent tune. I would never decline (or not enjoy) a dive just because my regulator was less-than-perfect breathing.

As an example, I put a lot of work into my pilots, which are the highest performing 2nd stages I have ever used or seen. (The fact that they are more than 30 years old says a lot about the dive gear industry) But I rarely dive with them any more. I'm perfectly happy sacrificing that little bit of ultra-easy breathing for a simple workhorse that I can just use and forget about. So 90% of my cave diving is done with converted 109s. Still, I enjoy working on, understanding, and trying out various regulators. Like I said, it's a side hobby.

Here's some discussion about the history of the pilot if anyone is interested.
https://vintagescuba.proboards.com/thread/4963/scubapro-pilot-regulator-came

 

[Angelo Farina]

Location and location.
Well USA is NOT Italy and I believe the OP is from USA.
Perhaps the Americans should ask why SP is so expensive in USA!

Which was exactly my point!
Prices vary a lot worldwide, which is strange, in this globalised world. Of course, nothing forbids to buy on Ebay from another country: in some cases customs will charge you import duties, but in most cases this simply does not happen, as international sellers usually ship the items as "no value sample", or declare ridiculously low value.
I purchased many times from USA to Italy, so I do not see any reason for not doing the opposite. If something costs less here, purchase it here, even if you are in the US or in Japan or in any other country of the world.

 

[Wibble]

Which was exactly my point!
Prices vary a lot worldwide, which is strange, in this globalised world. Of course, nothing forbids to buy on Ebay from another country: in some cases customs will charge you import duties, but in most cases this simply does not happen, as international sellers usually ship the items as "no value sample", or declare ridiculously low value.
I purchased many times from USA to Italy, so I do not see any reason for not doing the opposite. If something costs less here, purchase it here, even if you are in the US or in Japan or in any other country of the world.

Kind of the discovery which us Brits have made following Brexit. It's now just as easy and cheaper to buy stuff from the 'States than from the EU. Wonder where this will end