3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

[Laser]

How does one get to a level of confidence with these types of dives without ever having to push the envelope at various stages along the learning curve? To me and my inexperience, this doesn’t seem possible without taking at least incremental risks so that one can graduate to harder wreck dives. I could easily see a few well trained individuals thinking about skipping an inconvenient step or two along the way. The process of wreck dives and perhaps the thrill one gets in doing them seems rife with the potential for enticement into questionable decision making. Maybe that’s just diving in general.

You get the proper training in gas management, dive planning, penetration techniques, silt out procedures, buddy communication, proper finning, etc. etc. etc.
You don't enter a complicated wreck with barely an idea where the passage goes without taking it slow and safe over multiple dives using a line & progressive penetration. The decision making shouldn't be questionable, especially in this case. There was no gain to be had. Nothing to find. The ship is stripped and sunk on purpose. A perfect place to practice these techniques safely. That's what I can't quite understand is the level of risk taken for no real tangible gain.

 

[Cacia]

was to enter a room they weren't supposed to, well...

who exactly decides this?

We have wrecks that have various levels of obstacles, grates, etc. I thought it was done initially but I don't think it is monitored by anyone.

 

[H2Andy]

Andy, here is one of the reports that states they were in the pump room which is to be off limits. http://cbs4.com/local/local_story_077135945.html http://www.miamiherald.com/884/story/45198.html

thanks, the article says it was an area that was "supposed to be off-limits"

i wonder what the heck the reporter means by that. as far as i know, there are no "off limit" areas in the Grove

Although the Monroe County Sheriff's Department originally reported ******** stayed outside the wreck while his friends explored the labyrinth within, officials said yesterday all four divers swam to the pump room, a particularly dangerous part of the ship that was supposed to be sealed shut.

and there it is again ...

i wonder what they mean by this?

 

[deeper thoughts]

Yes there is, there were some areas that were sealed off and somehow have been opened, I dont have all the facts but someone on this board probably does. This was told to me by two dive ops

 

[H2Andy]

Yes there is, there were some areas that were sealed off and somehow have been opened

hmmm... ok, i'll accept that is synonimous with "off limits" for now ...

but i'm not convinced

 

[Doc Intrepid]

There are no welds on hatches, grates, or other barriers inside a wreck that will deny access to an interior compartment indefinitely.

In the case of this wreck, she was rolled nearly 90 degrees longitudinally by a hurricane and battered by multiple heavy storms. This had to produce unbelieveable pressures and stress fractures on her internal structure. Any welds may very well have been broken at that time.

Moreover, the wreck weakens and collapses by its own weight over time. Look at the photos of the Andrea Doria. The entire concept of a "out of bounds" area inside a shipwreck is flawed. Who is going to be responsible to enter into a collapsing shipwreck to attempt to ensure that multiple barriers to internal compartments remain sealed?

"Out of bounds" or "off limits" might work for a ski resort, but not for a wreck.

Someone produce a citation - any citation - defining this concept in greater detail.

 

[Buoyant1]

The reason for leaving the valve off is to prevent any unnoticed gas loss while you're carrying the bottle or while you're away from it. The reason for charging the hoses is to retain good seals, to prevent any water, and expecially any silt, getting into the reg.
Rick

Thanks for answering my second question before I asked it...good information as always guys!

 

[Marvel]

(Just my) suggestion: Given the sheer number of posts in this thread- consisting of a gradual discovery of the facts with much discussion intermixed, it might be helpful for those who are interested in attempting some sort of analysis for someone who has followed this thread to summarize the known facts at this point. i.e: gear used, training, conditions, known events, etc., etc.

 

[Black Dog]

(Just my) suggestion: Given the sheer number of posts in this thread- consisting of a gradual discovery of the facts with much discussion intermixed, it might be helpful for those who are interested in attempting some sort of analysis for someone who has followed this thread to summarize the known facts at this point. i.e: gear used, training, conditions, known events, etc., etc.

Can't get a better discripton than this:


A shower of silt believed to have doomed 3 divers
Monday, March 19, 2007
BY LAURA JOHNSTON AND CARLY ROTHMAN
Star-Ledger Staff

Swirling silt likely blinded three New Jersey divers and blocked their exit from the pump room of a sunken Navy ship, officials and scuba experts said yesterday.

The three men, ****** ******** and ****** ********of Westfield and ****** ******** of Chatham Borough, died Friday after running out of air in the belly of the USS Spiegel Grove, 134 feet underwater, six miles east of Key Largo, Fla. A fourth diver, ****** ******** of Westfield, escaped.

"Visibility went to zero," said Tom Doherty of Old Bridge, a dive instructor who knew all four men and spoke with ****** after the accident. ******** managed by feel, literally, to find the hatch opening in the floor and drop through it. That's how he survived."

Although the Monroe County Sheriff's Department originally reported ******** stayed outside the wreck while his friends explored the labyrinth within, officials said yesterday all four divers swam to the pump room, a particularly dangerous part of the ship that was supposed to be sealed shut.

According to the sheriff's department, ******** said the divers weren't sure where they were, but he thought he knew the right direction. As he ran low on air in his tank, he tried to tell the others which way to go, but they didn't listen.

"He went one way and they went the other," Detective Mark Coleman said. "He lived because he went the right way and got out."

The Spiegel Grove, a 510-foot Navy landing ship dock, was sunk five years ago as an artificial reef and diving attraction. Each year an estimated tens of thousands of divers visit the wreck, though only the most experienced venture inside, where intense dark and strong currents can be disorienting.

The men dove the wreck about five other times, including on Thursday, when they also explored the pump room, friends said. They were experts, and all except Coughlin were instructors.

******** , 52, is a prominent Union County attorney and former Union Township municipal court judge.

******** , 55, a karate instructor and father of two grown children, was co-owner of the Carpet Mill outlet in East Hanover. ******** , 51, had battled back from homelessness and alcoholism to amass significant property holdings in New Jersey and elsewhere, said his friend, Bob Moran. And ******** , 38, had two young sons and worked as a financial adviser for Smith Barney in Roseland

"The dive friends, everyone kind of came from different backgrounds and really got along well," said ******** 's wife, Regina. "They were older than he was, but they really bonded together."

Drawing the men -- who planned their trip in November -- were 166 species of fish, including barracudas and bull sharks, and the history of the ship, which was commissioned in 1956 and once carried Navy amphibious craft to Cold War hot spots.

"It's a thrill," said Tony Donetz of Flemington, who dove at Spiegel Grove last year with all four men. "You never know ... what's going to be around that corner. It could be nothing. It could be some nice fish. It could be a shark. That's why you're exploring."

******** declined yesterday to speak to reporters. But friends in New Jersey, divers with whom he had made dozens of trips, spoke with ******** .

"He was just hysterical," said ******** ******** , ******** ******** wife. "I said, 'You did everything you could do.'"

******** had grabbed ******** by the hand, friends said. But when ******** tried to help another friend, he lost his grip.

"He (******** ) lost more than just a dive buddy," said Jim Flanagan, president of the Ocean Wreck Divers of New Jersey. "He lost his best friend."

The whole scary ordeal must have taken place about 20 minutes into the men's dive, said Doherty, explaining a tank could hold about 20 to 25 minutes of air at that depth.

The men had brought extra "stage tanks" with them, but left them closer to the entrance, unreachable once the curtain of silt descended, sheriff's officials said. And they didn't have dive reels -- spools of line tied to the dive entrance so divers can find their way back.

"It doesn't take very much movement to kick that silt up and cause problems with your ability to see," Coleman said. "Without a line to follow out and with lots of silt in the water, it would have been virtually impossible for them to find their way out of the wreck."

The men did set up strobe lights at the entrance and exit to each room, separated by narrow passages, friends said.

Small, high-intensity lights, they can be dropped "like laying bread crumbs" as divers move through a wreck, said R. J. Hartman, owner of the Treasure Cove dive shop in Westfield that brought the men together.

But in the silt -- sand stirred up from the ground and rust raining down from above -- the strobe lights were not enough. Silt can take up to an hour to clear, even outside of wrecks, Doherty said.

Sheriff's officials also contend the men did not have a dive plan, something their friends dispute. Donetz said he spoke with Stanley last Monday and knew their plan, which included exploring the pump room.

The bodies of ******** and ******** were brought to the surface Saturday after a team of rescue divers found them.

Two other divers had brought ******** s body to the surface on Friday. A boat from the Atlantis Dive Shop, of Key West, Fla., was out by the Scuba-do, the vessel which had taken the four Jersey friends out to the wreck, Atlantis co-owner Spencer Slate said yesterday.

The two divers on his 40-foot commercial boat the Starfish Enterprise, then went into the water, Slate said, but they were not immediately aware of the tragedy unfolding.

The divers told Slate they were swimming along the left side of the Spiegel Grove's deck, when they came upon ******** , who wasn't moving. It took them only a minute to surface with ******** , and a Coast Guard boat was there to take him away.

"He had about made it, he was almost in open water," Slate said. "He must've just blacked out from exhaustion. He was just 70 feet from the surface."

Autopsies were scheduled for yesterday, but results were not available. The sheriff's office investigation is ongoing.

"It's a terrible tragedy," Doherty said. "I don't think we'll ever clearly understand what happened."

Staff writers Suleman Din, Ralph Ortega and Alexi Friedman contributed to this report.

 

[Thalassamania]

That about sums it. Here's the waiver they all signed.