3 Divers lost on the Spiegel Grove

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leah:


I have read the whole thread and this comment just really stopped me in my tracks this morning. It just seemed to shout and scream off the page at me. Even as I have read it a couple of times over it just keeps screaming back at me. I just don't know what to say if this statement is indeed true and I have no reason to doubt tridacna is telling us the truth. :( :(

Believe me this is true. I told this story to a few friends and they could not believe it either. It was one of the major reasons why I stay away from penetration dives. The other reason is that I like to see fish. But that's another story.
 
Walter:
If he'd learned that lesson, he could still be here with us today.

Ahem. PMJI. Howard is very much alive and with us today. Apparently his previous experience served him well. He figured out how to get out. The others apparently chose not to follow him.
 
dave4868:
Speaking generally then, ... how we can individually deal with our own taking of unnecessary high risk?

A habit I developed in another unforgiving discipline is to always thoroughly evaluate and debrief, even if it seems that all went according to plan.

What could have been better executed? How could risks have been further minimized? Where were potential problems that were not recognized ahead of time? How could this dive been made safer? More fun? What would I do different next time? ...
daniel f aleman:
What were they thinking while gearing up?
Maybe ... this will be just like we did last time.

Willie
 
To add my two cents worth here, a lot of this story seems to stem from the ago-old question of personal judgement.

Diving is risky, but we do it anyway, because we evaluate the risks involved and are willing to take those risks. The decision to go down, or into a cave, into a wreck, slightly deeper, or on 180 bar instead of 220 is something we each evaluate. The further you go in terms of penetration, depth and so on, the greater the risk. Our training, equipment and preparation offset the risk, but there is always more than if we simply didn't go.

The difference between our characters is reflected in where we draw our own lines. This is why some will do tech dives deep into dark cave systems, while others are petrified of the simplest penetrations (or even diving itself). Even at 25m in warm, clear water, I might die. Fortunately, in this day and age, it is very unlikely, so we are still prepared to take that chance. But at the bottom floor of a silty wreck (possibly without a line), that chance is much greater. Fewer of us would go there.

What I draw from this thread is how important this evaluation is. The aim, impossible though it might be, must always to assess EVERYTHING: every possibility of danger, the extent of every possible outcome, every risk, before the decision, during it's course, and afterwards.

As has been said many times herein already, accidents like this are tragic, with the tragedy amplified by the question of how preventable we think it may have been. To the people that knew these divers, and especially those close to them, we show our support and empathy. To the rest of the diving community, we re-establish a timeless and universal lesson.

Edit: It's weird that the post above was entered while I was typing this one.
 
Rick Murchison:
Proper gas management isn't in dispute. Everyone's pretty much in agreement on the rule of thirds, and agrees that in this case they could/should have had more gas. The ongoing argument, for years, has been over progressive penetration without a guideline (with or without strobes or other "exit" lights) vs continuous guideline to open water. This mishap has settled that argument; a continuous guideline to open water must be the standard for wreck penetrations. Reservations about entanglement and lines getting cut can easily be addressed with technique and training. Nothing but a guideline is satisfactory in a total siltout, and total siltouts are an integral part of wreck penetration.
Rick

Actually, the rule of thirds is just a starting point. Like a ppo of 1.4. Other factors might dictate even more conservative planning to coorespond to an elevated risk. I am just starting my cave training and this is kind of fresh in my head. Also, I know it is hard for me to use the 1/6 rule for doubles at the level I am at, but I know it is for good reasons, namely my risk is higher due to inexperience at this juncture.

It seems to me that several of the BASIC overhead main accident contributors were involved in this situation. Lines, gas, and lights seem to be all probable violations of known major factors.
 
scububa:
Actually, the rule of thirds is just a starting point.
Of course it is... but we're talkin' 'bout wrecks here, not caves. There may be some special circumstance - I reckon you could scooter in the O-boat hangar bay, for example - where thirds needs modification, but it's pretty rare. (a third of your penetration gas... that's a third of what you have after reserving your lost-gas deco gas etc).
Rick
 
ianr33:
Are you saying that you dont bother with a line in a cavern?

If so that is kind of ironic considering the subject of this thread.
Similar to a siltout is a total light failure at night, even in the cavern zone of a silt-free cave. There has been at least one fatality in the cavern at Morrison where the poor fellow went in at night, lost his (only) light and couldn't find his way back out.
If you dive Morrison you'd think you'd really have to work at it to not find that hole... and of course the rope is there now. But just for fun, try going in there and closing your eyes, have your buddy spin you around a time or two, and try finding your way out without a line - just finding the rope may be an adventure in surprise!
Bottom line, if you can't see the exit ahead of you, (and it's behind you when entering a cavern), run a line. Many folks have found out the hard way that the "daylight" zone can get mighty dark, mighty fast in a siltout.
Rick
 
ianr33:
Are you saying that you dont bother with a line in a cavern?

If so that is kind of ironic considering the subject of this thread.


Im pretty sure he is saying that if he cant see directly out to open water, he runs a line.
 
wscdive:
I never pass the cavern zone (where you can see out) without a line out.

The way I read that is that he never "passes the cavern zone" i.e. enters the cave zone without a line. That implies he is in a cavern without a line.

Whatever the meaning intended,when I am in a cavern(or a wreck) I am going to have a line.
 

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