75 ft out of air, What do YOU do?

[The Chairman]

"substitute"- Does that mean that my training must be lacking if I have a SA?

Very possibly.

 

[Popeye]

NetDoc once bubbled...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And, what if you dive solo?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not germaine to this discussion.


Why not?

30% of the board dives solo, so a buddy will be of no help to them.

 

[fins wake]

... and the discussion seems to be more constructive, too, so here goes. First, Popeye's points, some of which I actually concede ...

The ones I hear about (fatal) seem to include a number of seasoned divers.

No, I really have to disagree on this one. Virtually all the events I hear or read about (either first-hand or on official incident report forms) involve inexperienced divers. Now, there is one first-hand OOA I know of involving an experienced wreck diver on a deep cold wreck dive, but it was never really an OOA, merely a faulty gauge indicating no air, which lead the wreck diver to abort the trimix dive with his buddy in good order. An incident report was actually filed, but personally I - and I think most Anglo-Saxons - would find this a bit excessive ... in any case, he was never actually out of air ...

The fact that you've witnessed so many is indicitive of a problem that only you can explain.

Nope, not witnessed. As you might reason from my original post, these are incidents I have either heard of first-hand (from 'victim' or 'rescuer') or seen on official incident reports. I have never experienced a true OOA (out-of-air) situation, I have however been both receiver (as a newbie) and donor in LOA (low-on-air) situations several times. But that's not really the same thing ... If you want me to, I can try to suitably anonymize and list a few first-hand OOA:s I know of ...

My reference to one's control over one's own diving.

You really meant to use 'aegis'. I stand corrected on this one and can only offer my sincere apologies. :embarr:

Maybe it's a translation thing for you.

Doubt it ...

I'm just talking about breathing my Wing instead of water.

Funnily enough, I'm not averse to this. I would do it myself if the brown stuff hits the fan. Then again I could handle it. I don't think most newbies can, and the risk is always that they would go for this as their first response, rather than go for e.g. the octopus of their dive buddy. As for solo divers, whatever else we may disagree/agree on, no newbie diver should dive solo!

 

[PhotoTJ]

Popeye once bubbled...


Fantastic!!!

Get a Kayak for the roof of the Bimmer, and if you drive off the dock, flip the car and you'll be all set!!! ;-)

Why didn't I think of that? I'm on the way to buy a roof rack!

 

[PhotoTJ]

Does this mean my training is defecient if I use an SA?

NetDoc once bubbled...
Very possibly.

Well, I would argue that I, like the vast majority of people in diving, enjoy a 'gimmick intensive' hobby.

I've never had to use my SA, nor have I ever had to breath my BC, but I know how to do both!

 

[Popeye]

fins wake once bubbled...

Some good points ...
... and the discussion seems to be more constructive, too, so here goes. First, Popeye's points, some of which I actually concede ...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ones I hear about (fatal) seem to include a number of seasoned divers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I really have to disagree on this one. Virtually all the events I hear or read about (either first-hand or on official incident report forms) involve inexperienced divers. Now, there is one first-hand OOA I know of involving an experienced wreck diver on a deep cold wreck dive, but it was never really an OOA, merely a faulty gauge indicating no air, which lead the wreck diver to abort the trimix dive with his buddy in good order. An incident report was actually filed, but personally I - and I think most Anglo-Saxons - would find this a bit excessive ... in any case, he was never actually out of air ...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact that you've witnessed so many is indicative of a problem that only you can explain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nope, not witnessed. As you might reason from my original post, these are incidents I have either heard of first-hand (from 'victim' or 'rescuer') or seen on official incident reports.

"Every single OOG incident that I ---personally know of--- (OOA, usually) has happened to newbie divers not checking their SPG:s. "

Your words. My misunderstanding. Any DAN statistics you can share, BSAC, whatever, would be interesting.

Anecdotes seem too passionate for accuracy...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My reference to one's control over one's own diving.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You really meant to use 'aegis'. I stand corrected on this one and can only offer my sincere apologies.

Gratefully accepted.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm just talking about breathing my Wing instead of water.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funnily enough, I'm not averse to this. I would do it myself if the brown stuff hits the fan. Then again I could handle it. I don't think most newbies can, and the risk is always that they would go for this as their first response, rather than go for e.g. the octopus of their dive buddy. As for solo divers, whatever else we may disagree/agree on, no newbie diver should dive solo!

Me personally, when I hear "well I can do it, but I doubt you could..." I get a little itchy.

The experienced tend to make assumptions for the inexperienced. About their experience...

I think anybody that chooses to learn it, could. Inexperience can only be remedied by experience and practice. Anyone about to use it, would be one step from drowning, all other avenues exhausted. It's nice to have a buddy, but, realistically, they aren't always there. It can never hurt to have one more piece of information, one last option.

Trust me when I say: If the plane was going down, I'd be out on the wing, flapping my arms.

As far as solo diving goes, there's a lotta definitions of that. You can have someone glued to you, that will be of no help when the time comes. Some have the option of diving with the same partner all the time,

Some don't.

 

[Scuba]

A warning I have not seen posted regarding bc breathing is that the bc hose mouthpiece contains a small amount of water in it. Someone unaware of this can place the mouthpiece to his mouth, inhale, and start choking compounding the problem.

There is a lot of good info here. There are also divers of all levels, and even divers to be. Its very easy for the more experience ones to overlook some points because they appear so obvious to some. But a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing for others.

Someone may wish to post the techniques for breathing from a bc. I'm not qualified to do this. Also, training under supervision, ideally professional, is always a good idea.

 

[Charlie99]

Scuba once bubbled...
Someone may wish to post the techniques for breathing from a bc. I'm not qualified to do this. Also, training under supervision, ideally professional, is always a good idea.

Simple instructions. Use at your own risk.

Find a comfy spot, preferably sitting on the floor with cushions around you and nothing to hit your head on when you pass out.

Put on BC. Hold down inflator button. Breathe out, into the BC. Continuing to hold down inflator button, breathe in the air now in the BC.

Repeat until you pass out in about 3 minutes.

No, I haven't done this, but have chatted with a guy that did do it, and apparently the increased levels of CO2 made him pass out after 3-5 minutes. He recovered consciousness almost immediately upon breathing normal air, with no apparent ill effect. It does make one wonder, though, about his mental state before doing the experiment. (no, this wasn't Popeye) :wacko:

 

[Popeye]

Scuba once bubbled...
A warning I have not seen posted regarding bc breathing is that the bc hose mouthpiece contains a small amount of water in it.

Rick Murchison and I addressed it, but you do well to point it out again.

There is a lot of good info here. There are also divers of all levels, and even divers to be. Its very easy for the more experience ones to overlook some points because they appear so obvious to some. But a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing for others.

That's not for us to decide for others.

There's no one here, who dives, who isn't -completely- responsible for their own diving.

If misuse of information that is perfectly safe for their peers endangers them, they have no business diving.

Someone may wish to post the techniques for breathing from a bc. I'm not qualified to do this. Also, training under supervision, ideally professional, is always a good idea.

I learned it on the couch. Elroy the dog supervised, fascinated.

You are correct though.

The problem is, you may desire this information, and your instructor may not want you to have it, as we have seen, because he/she feels the need to dictate your diving, or that you simply aren't smart enough to decide for yourself.

I've already provided the information to others here, PM me if anyone is curious about my opinion of how to do this.

 

[Popeye]

Charlie99 once bubbled...
Simple instructions. Use at your own risk.

Find a comfy spot, preferably sitting on the floor with cushions around you and nothing to hit your head on when you pass out.

Put on BC. Hold down inflator button. Breathe out, into the BC. Continuing to hold down inflator button, breathe in the air now in the BC.

Repeat until you pass out in about 3 minutes.

No, I haven't done this, but have chatted with a guy that did do it, and apparently the increased levels of CO2 made him pass out after 3-5 minutes. He recovered consciousness almost immediately upon breathing normal air, with no apparent ill effect. It does make on wonder, though, about his mental state before doing the experiment. :wacko:

I made it 5m35s.