A somewhat sad conversation last night

[lamont]

I don't understand why some people would want to put down a system of diving because of a few egotistical people or because of an acronym such as DIR......If you take the time to see what all the hubub is about you will find a learning system that challenges you to be a better diver.....if you're not trying to improve your skills in a sport that can be life threating, why bother...?

If you use a Mac, go surf around the internet for Mac zealots bashing Windows PCs. If you use Linux, you should have seen the fanboy zealots back on slashdot around 1998 or so... EPIC... Checkout out Richard Stallman sometime... He's sort of the GI3 of the Linux world (and yes, RMS can bite me, I'm still calling it Linux), only he's a bit weirder: Please Do Not Buy Richard Stallman a Parrot And Other Rules . If I stayed away from anything that had egotistical people involved, I'd have to be a buddhist monk living in some mountaintop in asia...

People that whine about someone they think was a GUE/DIR diver who told them they were going to die need *seriously* thicker skin.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not because you're PADI certified. You might be an excellent diver. I'm talking about MY experience and what I expect from the training I got. I'll share an experience. During my advanced class, I was going for my first night dive. I was partnered with my PADI instructor's brother. Not only did I have trouble getting in to the surf (as I wasn't very experienced doing it), my parter and I lost the instructor and the rest of the class 5 minutes into our dive. My partner signaled "UP" and I made my ascent. When I got there, my partner was nowhere to be found. I could see lights below but had no idea what they were doing. After being on the surface, in the dark, by myself for about 3-4 minutes....I went back in to shore. As this was only my 3rd shore dive...negotiating the surf back in was also a challenge. When the PADI instructor and the rest of my class finally came back to shore 30 minutes later....he made a joke about me in front of everyone to the effect of "why did you come back to shore...? we're here to dive..."

I love instructors like that. A few months ago I started offering a skills workshop specifically for people who are relatively newly certified and wanting more than they got out of their classes ... mostly they're interested in better buoyancy control, propulsion, trim, and buddy skills. Once word got out that I'm offering that class, I've had a steady stream of customers. I could teach nothing but that workshop and be busy almost every week-end ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kingpatzer]

People believe what they want to believe.

Put 25 people in a room. One of them starts acting like a jack-ass. Do you then stereotype everyone in the room as a jack-ass?

Do I? Or given a large enough population of observers will someone?

They are two different questions.

Are you offended by something I've said? Or are you offended because there are people who hold a poor opinion of DIR?

I'm unaware of anything I've posted in this thread prejudicial to DIR. Indeed, the only comment I made about DIR divers was that I had a negative experience with some of them, and that I hope to be able to dive with others that I've met on this board.

If you're not offended by something I've said, why are you taking general observations I'm making about the behaviors of populations of people and making it personal?

It depends on what you've already decided about that group of people. If you've decided before interacting with them that you won't like them, then you'll look for any reason to justify that decision. On the other hand, if you've decided that you'll judge them based on their overall behavior, then you'll discount the one as a jack-ass, and judge the rest according to their actions.

Life is exactly as fair as you decide to make it ...

Really - so I can stop kids dying of starvation and malnutrition the world over? 'Cause I don't think that's fair either.
And I can stop every prejudicial act by every person in the world acting on irrational biases too?

Oh, why didn't you tell me that I had the power to change human nature before?!

Or, maybe you might want to face the fact that you can be as high minded as you want, and people will still be people and they will still behave the way people behave and there's really little you can do about it.

 

[elan]

How do you guys work out who is a DIR diver and who is not?

Do these guys get the same tattoo or something?

If you see a guy walking down the street, and when he scratches his ear with one hand his other hand starts shaking left to right left to right then he is "enlightened"

 

[GShockey]

There are some practices of DIR that I aspire too have. Good trim and buoyancy control(the latter of which i have recently gotten down to the point where I can cruise a finger length above the bottom) stream lining of gear, proper maintenance of ones gear, and appropriate fitness to dive. But on the other coin especially as a newer diver I can see there are overzealous people who do forget that diving is also about enjoyment and take the DIR book and bash others over the head with it till they either A) submit or B) leave the thread. I think what comes out of this is the tone of the discussion whether implied or not. Most divers be it new or not ( more so for the latter) who come here and ask questions are probably nervous as well since odds are they are not regulars who have been reading here for year or may not be used to electronic forms of communication (which can easily be misinterpreted).

My first experience with a GUE person was during my first dive after open water and I can say I will never dive with her again. It was a dive run by one of the local shops on the weekend aimed at doing local dives within the limits of newer divers. When she looked at the sign up chart noted that I had just done my OW and pulled me aside and said "Ok you can come and dive with us just don't get me killed or ruin my dive". Simply put she was lucky I was in a good sense of humor. Funny thing is she as the DM for that Saturday dive should have expected newer divers. Needless to say I have not gone back to that shop to do a weekend dive since and honestly it made me look down on the whole GUE/DIR crew quite a bit from an initial meeting. Despite my respect for their work towards perfectionism. This is also despite the fact that every other person i have dove with notes how good my trim is and my buoyancy control is and the lack of dangling articles. It could be a once off sort of thing but it does from first impressions leave and impression that GUE/DIR folks are a bunch of assholes (not saying they are) who only respect others like themselves. Will i take a GUE/DIR course down the road perhaps, but I also remember the events of that day quite well and will make me a bit nervous when it comes to that training.

Greetings,

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Not surprisingly I know most of the GUE community here and I am surprised this happened. As Bob mentioned earlier (Hi Bob ) please feel free to contact me at gs@gue.com and we can arrange to go diving. I will also introduce you to many other members of the local GUE community and we will see if we can't fix your first impression No, you don't have to have any special equipment and feel free to bring as many questions as you like. At the recreational level I think you will find we are more concerned with dangling participles rather than dangling articles....

Best,

Guy

 

[Doomnova]

Greetings,

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Not surprisingly I know most of the GUE community here and I am surprised this happened. As Bob mentioned earlier (Hi Bob ) please feel free to contact me at gs@gue.com and we can arrange to go diving. I will also introduce you to many other members of the local GUE community and we will see if we can't fix your first impression No, you don't have to have any special equipment and feel free to bring as many questions as you like. At the recreational level I think you will find we are more concerned with dangling participles rather than dangling articles....

Best,

Guy

Give me a sec to pick my jaw up off the ground.

Thank you for your offer Guy. i'm not going to ask you to come down to Victoria just for me. But I will email you and when your in the area I would be more than glad to hop in the water with you. I don't plan to be diving much for the next few weeks anyways as those dear thing called Final exams are circling me like I'm a a frozen bait chunk dangling on a line waiting for consumption.

Regards,

Gordon

 

[GShockey]

Give me a sec to pick my jaw up off the ground.

Thank you for your offer Guy. i'm not going to ask you to come down to Victoria just for me. But I will email you and when your in the area I would be more than glad to hop in the water with you. I don't plan to be diving much for the next few weeks anyways as those dear thing called Final exams are circling me like I'm a a frozen bait chunk dangling on a line waiting for consumption.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon,

I would be more than happy to make the trip to your dive site of choice for a dive. I do this for fun. . If it is just you that is perfectly fine. Let me know when you are available and good luck with finals. I have a very flexible schedule so you chose the time.

Best,

Guy

 

[TSandM]

BTW, this exchange between Doomnova and GShockey is MUCH more what I'm used to . . .

I am going to write to one of the Dutch GUE instructors and find out if it is true that all GUE activities there are closed . . . I find it difficult to believe that there is no outreach going on, because I know JP and his wife reasonably well, and I know both of them would welcome people who are curious about the system.

 

[vcblklion]

I love instructors like that. A few months ago I started offering a skills workshop specifically for people who are relatively newly certified and wanting more than they got out of their classes ... mostly they're interested in better buoyancy control, propulsion, trim, and buddy skills. Once word got out that I'm offering that class, I've had a steady stream of customers. I could teach nothing but that workshop and be busy almost every week-end ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yeah...he was awesome....I didn't even get into the story about when I asked him to help me review the dive tables and he told me "that's why I have a dive computer...." Yup....I sure learned a LOT in his Advanced Open Water class......

 

[Doomnova]

I also would be more than willing to take feedback on my dive skills as I really am one of those who wants to be the best at what I do.

I'm done finals on the 25th of the month and I don't have classes again till the 14th of May (yay summer classes I'm a glutton for punishment). So anytime between those 2 dates I will surely be free. TSandM I'm not saying all people are like I mentioned in my post but as a new diver at the time I makes me apprehensive about going back to do dives with that shop/person and also about a group I aspired to eventually be part of because I do want my skills to be the best and the safest. I'm also aperson who gives groups and people second chances as well.