Accident Analysis vs Emotions

[H2Andy]

4. Should condolence be posted elsewhere? Quite frankly, unless the family or friends of he victim are posting, it seems somewhat odd to be posting condolences.

i think this is the only thing i disagree with you about

condolences are good. they give the whole picture. they represent the range of responses to an accident, and if a family member or friend reads the thread, the condolences will certainly balance out the accident discussion

also, they keep the posters aware that this was a real person who died, and who has a family and friends

i think there's a place for both analysis and condolences in the same threat. to divide them would be artificial and wouldn't work.

 

[lamont]

-- i don't like Rick's idea (sorry Rick). what is the big deal? people should be able to discuss an accident just like they can discuss anything else on ScubaBoard. if a post violates TOS, it can be removed. why the heavy-handed Big Brother approach to accident analysis?

on the other hand, if the ownership doesn't want to have that sort of discussion going on in ScubaBoard, as others have said, there are excellent accident analysis forums out there, such as The Deco Stop.

I think the problem is that people look at TDS's policies on accident analysis which are fairly 'liberal' and TDS tends to err on the side of letting people speak their mind. They then go the other direction and want to put into place policies which will prevent families and friends of the victim from ever seeing any hint of blamestorming or grandstanding which quench pretty much any discussion.

 

[Cacia]

they represent the range of responses to an accident,

good point. I was for seperating it for the people who cannot handle it, but that never works.

I will never forget the Canadian mother whose son died in a training dive in the river and her PM to me. She was searching for clarity and took great comfort in the fact that we were all affected and needing to find answers and discuss the implications of what had happened. She posted bravely to the thread, and I had so much respect for how in touch she was with her search to understand how her son died. She just wanted to talk to someone who was a diver....

 

[PerroneFord]

...and if a family member or friend reads the thread, the condolences will certainly balance out the accident discussion

also, they keep the posters aware that this was a real person who died, and who has a family and friends

If this is our position, then the name of the victim should be allowed. If we want to humanize the tragedy, then saying Diver XXXXXX, simply isn't going to cut it. Family members are not going to be able to Google for Diver XXXXXXX, and neither are friends.

In the time I have been here, I have seen one SB moderator lose his life diving. The outpouring of love and support was tremendous. And though it's been a long time, I don't remember anyone scrutinizing the available data to try to make sense of it and help others not make the same mistake. Other forums handled it differently. Perhaps it is just my poor, hazy memory.

We're trying to have it both ways. We cannot humanize these tragedy's and then not name the victim. We cannot scrutinize over the details but yet moderate the speculation that goes with it. The SB staff needs to decide what they want this forum to be, and then label it accordingly.

That said, 95% of accidents here could be summed up by saying to divers, don't seperate from your buddy, use proper gas planning, don't dive if you are not fit to do so, and don't exceed your training. Really, there's not much else

 

[H2Andy]

If this is our position, then the name of the victim should be allowed. If we want to humanize the tragedy, then saying Diver XXXXXX, simply isn't going to cut it. Family members are not going to be able to Google for Diver XXXXXXX, and neither are friends.

yeah, especially when you can post an article that has the name and age and home town, etc.

 

[Rick Murchison]

... name of the victim should be allowed. ...

See, guys, this is the problem. There is a fundamental misunderstanding as to what accident analysis is, and what it isn't.
Names are scrubbed from accident analysis because names are irrelevant to the process.
We need to form a new forum called "Accident Discussions" where all the names and the speculation and the condolences can fly unhindered.
If we don't want a real accident analysis then we ought to change the name of that forum and junk the pretense of the special rules.
Rick

 

[PerroneFord]

Rick, that's what I have been saying from the beginning. We are not DOING accident analysis on these threads, so we should name forum for what it really is.

"A Blueprint for Survival" is great accident analysis. No name, just particulars, errors, outcomes, and lessons to be learned.

 

[DennisS]

Why not set up scenarios, with "facts" and discuss them.

Maybe he was doing this, maybe he was doing that. the minute the first accident report comes out accomplishes nothing.

Everyone jumps on a newspaper report and the speculation goes wild. There was the Key Largo one where the equipment was being rinsed and the speculation from scubaboard had the guy resetting the computer for some nefarious reason. On and on it goes, people with no facts stating their opinions. It isn't accident analysis.

I like Dandy Dons idea, where the automatic red, "This is hypothetical" tagline gets attached.

 

[LAJim]

The whole point is to educate divers at various levels so that they are more inclined to avoid undue hazards and then react appropriately when the unexpected happens. Real accidents tend to bring the process into focus for many divers, but more experienced divers look for common elements so as to change procedures to avoid unsafe situations.

Many complex accidents have multiple "barrier failures" that can be discussed impassionately. The paractice of accident analysis is a professional discilpline. Can we find an experienced diver who does this for a living (not scuba, generic accidents) to help us frame a protocol for analysis?

 

[H2Andy]

Rick, that's what I have been saying from the beginning. We are not DOING accident analysis on these threads, so we should name forum for what it really is.

correct ... to expect us to do accident analysis basically flies in the face of what is possible