Am I fit for scuba diving ?

[Scott]

Just thought of something. It states that exposure suit can be worn if the student is WEIGHTED for neutral buoyancy. Does that mean if you are negatively buoyant in fresh water (like me, who can only float hands out of the water by drown proofing) that you can wear an exposure suit without weights to get neutrally buoyant? If so, what suit? A shorty? As well, neutrally buoyant means suspended in the water column, neither floating nor sinking. Someone in this situation would still seem to be at a disadvantage compared to someone who can actually float without assistance or movement (my wife can float vertically in a pool with (almost) no hand or foot movement, whereas I sink like a stone unless holding a big breath and drown proofing. I don't feel that this means she is more comfortable in water than me.

I had this conversation with PADI HQ in 2011. Their response was;
"If the water temperature requires that the student wear thermal protection such as a wetsuit or drysuit, then they need to be weighted so that he is neutrally buoyant at the surface during the Waterskills Assessment. “Conditions” only refer to environmental conditions and not to the students physical condition. There are a number of factors, such as size, shape, muscle vs. fatty tissue, age, etc. that may make floating or swimming, more difficult for one and easier for the other. However, the point of the Waterskills Assessment is to use the float and the swim to determine whether an individual, with whatever his body type he has, is reasonably comfortable in the water. To try to compensate for a student’s body type, fitness level, age, etc. by providing additional buoyancy, swim aids, etc. would defeat the purpose of the exercise."

 

[spectrum]

So am I fit for scuba diving, or not ?

I don't see a big problem.

You will need to answer yes to some questions and unless you can satiate the instructor need a physicians sign-off. You're not perfect but for this scope being under control and reasonably active works.

The need to swim has been beaten to death and it's surely a positive. It's essential that you are comfortable in the water.

Forget about the 15 foot depth limit it really has no bearing. Your initial certification will usually be to 60 feet and you can go anywhere in that range. There is no shallow diver limitation to the range you suggest.

Find a good instructor, talk it thorugh and give it a shot.

Pete

 

[TMHeimer]

boulderjohn, Scott, I get what you're both saying and agree. The wording confused me a bit. A wording such as "Weights must be used to offset the positive buoyancy of the exposure suit, thus the student's buoyancy is the same as if he wore only a bathing suit" would be clear to me. The Standard's ".....as long as they are weighted for neutral buoyancy"-- reads like the student's natural body buoyancy IS considered--- thus all students would be the same, at the surface or wherever. Just a questionable wording IMO. I have seen such things before.

 

[fjpatrum]

Just thought of something. It states that exposure suit can be worn if the student is WEIGHTED for neutral buoyancy. Does that mean if you are negatively buoyant in fresh water (like me, who can only float hands out of the water by drown proofing) that you can wear an exposure suit without weights to get neutrally buoyant? If so, what suit? A shorty? As well, neutrally buoyant means suspended in the water column, neither floating nor sinking. Someone in this situation would still seem to be at a disadvantage compared to someone who can actually float without assistance or movement (my wife can float vertically in a pool with (almost) no hand or foot movement, whereas I sink like a stone unless holding a big breath and drown proofing. I don't feel that this means she is more comfortable in water than me.

I am slightly negative without an exposure suit. I also turn blue in about 5 minutes without an exposure suit, even in an 80*F pool.

I explained to the instructor before the course started what my situation was and they worked with me. I was allowed to wear a 2.5 mm long sleeve shorty for all of my pool work, including the swim. I was not required to wear any weights.

I don't remember if they actually asked me to swim farther than the 200m or not but I think that would be a good compromise for people like me who can swim as long as we're warm enough. Maybe do the 300m without mask/fins if you're going to wear a wetsuit when most people don't, or something like that.

 

[TMHeimer]

I am slightly negative without an exposure suit. I also turn blue in about 5 minutes without an exposure suit, even in an 80*F pool.

I explained to the instructor before the course started what my situation was and they worked with me. I was allowed to wear a 2.5 mm long sleeve shorty for all of my pool work, including the swim. I was not required to wear any weights.

I don't remember if they actually asked me to swim farther than the 200m or not but I think that would be a good compromise for people like me who can swim as long as we're warm enough. Maybe do the 300m without mask/fins if you're going to wear a wetsuit when most people don't, or something like that.

Wetsuits of any kind are allowable at the amateur swim competitions my brothers do obviously for the same reason- cold water. However, those wearing them are not eligible for medals. When I wear my short sleeve shorty diving in fresh water I need 12 pounds (18 for salt water) with an AL80 tank, so the suit is quite buoyant (and you used a long sleeve one, plus no tank weight while doing the swim). This is my set up when DMing at the pool. In doing the swim without any weights, it would seem your instructor violated Standards. Sort of gets back to my original question.
Interesting idea about shorty & no weights, but a farther swim required. But it's still not the same thing as if your boat (and all equipment including fins) sank and you had to swim unaided in Lake Superior.

 

[RJP]

I had this conversation with PADI HQ in 2011. Their response was;
"If the water temperature requires that the student wear thermal protection such as a wetsuit or drysuit, then they need to be weighted so that he is neutrally buoyant at the surface during the Waterskills Assessment....To try to compensate for a student’s body type, fitness level, age, etc. by providing additional buoyancy, swim aids, etc. would defeat the purpose of the exercise."

Interesting sort of "mathematical" read here. If a student is innately 5lbs negative without exposure protection, and then dons a wetsuit that is 6lbs positive because the water is cold, according to PADI they would need to only add one pound of lead to be "neutrally weighted at the surface." However, this would still mean that the person has gained a 5lb "positive buoyancy" advantage, right? This is effectively a floatation aid, and doesn't this negate the value of the test as well?

I've always read "into" the standard that the buoyancy of the exposure suit needed to be offset - ie student with a suit that is 6lbs positive needs 6lbs of lead - not that the diver had to be weighted to neutral. By the same PADI logic, someone who is a floater should have to be weighted "down" to neutral buoyancy, right?

 

[boulderjohn]

Interesting sort of "mathematical" read here. If a student is innately 5lbs negative without exposure protection, and then dons a wetsuit that is 6lbs positive because the water is cold, according to PADI they would need to only add one pound of lead to be "neutrally weighted at the surface." However, this would still mean that the person has gained a 5lb "positive buoyancy" advantage, right? This is effectively a floatation aid, and doesn't this negate the value of the test as well?

I've always read "into" the standard that the buoyancy of the exposure suit needed to be offset - ie student with a suit that is 6lbs positive needs 6lbs of lead - not that the diver had to be weighted to neutral. By the same PADI logic, someone who is a floater should have to be weighted "down" to neutral buoyancy, right?

See the comments above on this. If the wetsuit is 6 pounds positive, then the diver needs to wear 6 pounds of lead.

 

[Hawkwood]

You offset what you have added for thermal protection, simple. It's not meant to be overly complex.

 

[TMHeimer]

See the comments above on this. If the wetsuit is 6 pounds positive, then the diver needs to wear 6 pounds of lead.

Yes. And not overly complex as boulderjohn says. I assume there is a list somewhere of how positive each type (and brand?) of wetsuit is. RJP points out what I said-- it's just poor wording of the rule.

 

[RJP]

See the comments above on this. If the wetsuit is 6 pounds positive, then the diver needs to wear 6 pounds of lead.

You offset what you have added for thermal protection, simple. It's not meant to be overly complex.

Problem is, that words mean things. If that's what PADI meant (and I believe it is the only sensible thing they could mean) then why don't they say that.

What they say is very clear. It's wrong. And it's sort of stupid. But it's very clear.

Years ago I tried to explain to a PADI rep the problem with the wording of an answer to a question on a DSAT test compared to the text in the chapter. Long and short of it, in explaining how long to extend a deco stop if you descended back to stop depth after a missed/omitted stop, the chapter said to "complete a stop that is 150% of the original stop time" while the only answer to the corresponding question that was even close was "extend the original stop time by 150%."

PADI's response: "It means the same thing."

No. It doesn't.

Why?

Words mean things.