An Attempt at Understanding DIR

[Kingpatzer]

Where did you get that idea? Or, more to the point, why did you project that idea onto what Trace said ?

I wouldn't call choosing "the worst way to dive" and being "a cluster waiting to happen" to be anything else.

 

[Gilldiver]

By the way your military analogy is pure garbage. If I get my jump wings and transfer from one airborne unit to the next my new unit will not make me learn their way of doing airborne operations as there is only one approach to conventional airborne operations. Standard equipment, protocols and procedures for conventional airborne operations for all units and divisions across the Army. Kind of like GUE training for scuba.

You are confusing equipment and the training on the use of it with the training of the squad, platoon, or dive team. For an airborne drop, as Airborne, you would be expected to know how to jump, be current to the requirements, and able to get on the ground safely within the parameters of the mission. But what about how you operate within your squad, can any airborne trained solder just walk into a new squad and operate at full capacity, or do you need some time training with that squad prior to going on a mission?

What I was trying to get to was how you, the diver fit into the mission/objective of the team and how hard it is for the "Team" to maintain the training levels and proficiencies over time.

Back to the airborne drop - just how many jumps do you need to do per year to keep current? Last I heard it was one every 90 days. How does your dive team bring in new members and check to see if they are "current?"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

How does your dive team bring in new members and check to see if they are "current?"

You take them diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

I don't think anybody, GUE or otherwise, jumps in the water with a stranger to do a dive at the edge of their training/experience envelope! If you're contemplating really aggressive or ambitious dives, you always do workup dives and make sure you're comfortable with everybody. It's just that if you all have the exact same training in the same procedures and protocols, the likelihood of a good fit is higher, and you can be pretty optimistic that things will be a go.

I'm only C1, but I've gotten in the water with people I never dove with before, who were C1 from another place altogether, and everything has worked beautifully. I really like that about the system.

 

[Anti-Hero]

How does your dive team bring in new members and check to see if they are "current?"

They first have to do the secret handshake. After that they need to be able to assemble a fully DIR compliant rig, blindfolded and hanging upside down while repeating GUE EDGE. They have to recite the first, middle, and last names of all the original WKPP members, then pray in the direction of High-Springs on a Halcyon prayer mat.

 

[RTodd]

You take them diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That might work too. I always just checked for pizza stains.

 

[Sloth]

I don't think anybody, GUE or otherwise, jumps in the water with a stranger to do a dive at the edge of their training/experience envelope! If you're contemplating really aggressive or ambitious dives, you always do workup dives and make sure you're comfortable with everybody. It's just that if you all have the exact same training in the same procedures and protocols, the likelihood of a good fit is higher, and you can be pretty optimistic that things will be a go.

"How many tech 1 level dives do you have and when was the last one?"

"62 total and last was two weekends ago, how about you"

"33 and last weekend"

"sweet lets go dive!"

With enough dives at your current training level they kind of stop being aggressive or ambitious. Additionally there is a big difference from say a 150' dive for 25 minutes compared to a 90' dive for 50 mins.

I have no problem approaching a deco dive that way but I understand why some would. Plus we all love to dive and training dives are always a good idea so if time allows I'd be all for a work up dive.

If someone says they are fresh out of tech 1 with no prior deco experience then yeah I might want to do a shallow dive first.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't think anybody, GUE or otherwise, jumps in the water with a stranger to do a dive at the edge of their training/experience envelope! If you're contemplating really aggressive or ambitious dives, you always do workup dives and make sure you're comfortable with everybody. It's just that if you all have the exact same training in the same procedures and protocols, the likelihood of a good fit is higher, and you can be pretty optimistic that things will be a go.

I'm only C1, but I've gotten in the water with people I never dove with before, who were C1 from another place altogether, and everything has worked beautifully. I really like that about the system.

For less rigorous dives, our Channel Islands liveaboard was a lovely example of how it works. 22 divers ... all with similar skills, training, and equipment. 13 dives over a 3 day period and nobody missed a dive unless they wanted to. If equipment broke or failed (and it did), someone always had a spare or the parts to repair it. I dove with 11 different people on that trip ... most I'd never met before ... and was completely comfortable with my dive buddy(ies) on each and every dive. Scooter teams operated seamlessly ... nobody lost a dive buddy ... nobody had a scary underwater experience ... and nobody, but nobody, had a bad word to say about their "buddy of circumstance".

It was a classic example of a well-oiled team ... although after-hours, I don't think oil had anything to do with it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Mark,

Thank you for that regarding my dad. He had a fulfilled life in many ways, but sacrificed some dreams to "tow the line." What I'm trying to do is live my life doing more dream-chasing and a little less line towing while being somewhat responsible.

Having patience with you is easy because you think and thoughtfully apply your own ideas to your replies. It is difficult to discuss diving with DIR minions whose eyes glaze over and they begin to split apart like that robot in Star Trek after Capt. Kirk points out its fallibility.

My intent isn't to present other methods in the DIR section. I wholeheartedly support DIR. Jarrod Jablonski wrote many articles and posts speaking out against rote learning and advocating thinking divers. An unexpected by-product of DIR and the popularity of new divers taking GUE-F is that they seek mentoring, but are skeptical of any information not stamped with GUE approval. They are often afraid to think for themselves and are afraid of "getting it wrong." This is definitely not the intent of DIR. I had coffee with Andrew Georgitsis at DEMA and he told me that one of the things that he hoped to accomplish with UTD was to challenge the thought process of the students and produce thinking divers. He told me a story about a Tech 2 diver who had a runaway ascent because he couldn't reach his dump cord thanks to the position of an argon bottle. The diver had "perfect trim" and rear dump valve use so fused in his brain, he was unable to try other methods to solve the runaway ascent that resulted in DCS. My intent is to support DIR while challenging divers to think and foster a bit of respect for "old salts."

Bob Sherwood and I were diving together and talking to an old St. Lawrence diving legend, Moe Hunt, as well as Andrew Driver - British Royal Marine parachutist and technical diver. Bob and I look prettier underwater, but these gentleman have lots of experience. Bob listened carefully and respectfully to everything these men had to say. If anything was useful he would take it into consideration. If one of the original GUE instructors is willing to learn from others, why should new DIR divers be any different? Fear of getting it wrong? Listen to others, absorb, store and apply wisdom when ready or necessary.

Plato credited Socrates with saying, "The unexamined life is not worth living." To understand DIR is to know how to benefit from its strengths while overcoming its weaknesses.

When we set up PDIC's technical program, it grew from the work Marcus Werneck had done in Brasil. Marcus was a both a PDIC and a GUE instructor trainer. I believe Marcus has gone to UTD? However, several GUE instructors are also PDIC and many PDIC pros are trained by GUE. It was the only way to go for us given that the top cadre all followed DIR. It wasn't about trying to steal a program. We just couldn't get the genie back in the bottle.

We incorporated everything we could for DIR and added a bottom stage as being optional for PDIC Tek 1: Triox (30/30 & 25/25) and PDIC Tek 2: Trimix (21/35 & 18/45). The diver may elect to breathe bottom stages on the dive then switch to deco gas(es) leaving all back gas untouched for emergencies.

Don't drink any Kool-Aid. It rots the teeth you are trying to cut as a diver.

Hey Trace, condolences on your Father. I hope his was a gentle passing with a fulfilled life... <snip>

Let me start by thanking you for your on going patience with me... <snip>

One of the issues with this DIR forum is the DIR instructors that use to frequent these boards have all for the most part been run off by the trolls and the "Internet DIR" experts... <snip>

This has caused a bit of a vacuum that is being filled by instructors such as yourself and Thal. You guys see the merits of a "DIR" approach and in your case you have also directly experienced it. You guys can provide wonderful information as can anyone with decades of dive experience but I think you do a bit of a disservice by continually reminding those interested in learning about GUE/UTD training in the DIR forum that there are other options out there... <snip>

I will be moving to Ohio next week and maybe after I get use to cold water diving again I could track you down for a dive or two. I would love to dive with you and maybe drink some PDIC kool-aid

Mark

 

[lamont]

How does your dive team bring in new members and check to see if they are "current?"

On my first C1 trip we had a buddy that hadn't been in caves in years and was trained full cave by JJ pre-GUE. We spent a dive in Seattle running line in open water and going over procedural differences. Then we did something like 20+ C1 level dives with him down in MX over the course of a week. At the end of that we handed him off to the C2 divers and they took him out on C2 level dives. That seemed to work out pretty well all around.