Another Great trip- need advice on nitrox cert.

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I have more faith in our knowledge of physiology than flawed statistics so I often dive nitrox even if air would have enable the same NDC profile.
Yes, well, we are learning. DAN membership dollars at work and more. Diving Nitrox on air settings/table couldn't hurt within conservative MOD limits, might help - just don't skip any of the other safer diving practices, as there is more than N2 loading to the issue.

Personally, I'd set my computer on the right O2 level, then just try to keep it in the green. If I still get into yellow, hang on safety stop until in the green - but computers vary.
 
Last edited:
I (as the shop) don't make a DIME on a nitrox course - I cover expenses only - !


i'm sorry...i am an accountant and i just need to understand how exactly can you not make a DIME on the course...how much is the course?..........books are paid for by the student, other then the 2 free tanks what expenses are there?
 
As both a Nitrox and an Advanced Nitrox instructor, I hope I can explain the "it's not safer than air" issue.

The primary reason that most people dive nitrox is to extend bottom time. By using it, they can stay at depth longer. Let's say you dive to within one minute of your NDLs on air, for a total of 27 minutes of bottom time. Later on you dive nitrox to within one minute of your NDL, for a total bottom time of 33 minutes. You have not gained anything in safety. You are still just as close to NDLs in either case. What you gained was 6 minutes of bottom time.

But what about the people who dive with nitrox but dive to air limits? Aren't they safer? In theory, yes they are. If you tell your computer you are on air, but you are really on nitrox, you are somewhat safer in terms of DCS. How much? Well, the likelihood of getting DCS on an air dive is something like 0.002%. (I am making that number up--don't quote it.) If you dive on nitrox but on air standards, you may well be able to cut that risk to 0.0017. Congratulations! Yes, it is safer, but to a statistically insignificant degree.

If you dive recreational nitrox (<40%), do it for the extra bottom time. If you want to be safer, it is a whole lot easier (and cheaper) to keep your dive time farther away from the NDLs.

Advanced Nitrox (>40%) has a totally different purpose.
 
But what about the people who dive with nitrox but dive to air limits? Aren't they safer? In theory, yes they are. If you tell your computer you are on air, but you are really on nitrox, you are somewhat safer in terms of DCS. How much? Well, the likelihood of getting DCS on an air dive is something like 0.002%. (I am making that number up--don't quote it.) If you dive on nitrox but on air standards, you may well be able to cut that risk to 0.0017. Congratulations! Yes, it is safer, but to a statistically insignificant degree.

If you dive recreational nitrox (<40%), do it for the extra bottom time. If you want to be safer, it is a whole lot easier (and cheaper) to keep your dive time farther away from the NDLs.
Actually, statistically there is no difference. There also isn't any statistical difference in safety from keeping your dive time further away from the NDLs. That's why the statistics are meaningless. According to the statistics, if you stay within the NDLs, ascend at the recommended ascent rate, maybe or maybe not do an optional "safety" stop, and stay hydrated, you will never get bent. Unless you're one of the statistical anomalies.

As you say, DCS within the NDLs is pretty rare. It's usually chalked up to dehydration, simply because the hyperbaric doc needs to tell his patient something and "I dunno why" doesn't sound very professional.

If, and that's a big if, dehydration is the cause of these otherwise "undeserved" hits, doesn't it make sense that less nitrogen in one's tissues would make one less prone to DCS because of dehydration? Physiologically, that's a big yes.

It has not been proven and it will likely never be proven, but I firmly believe that less nitrogen in one's tissues (and a higher PPO2 for offgassing during ascent and safety stop) can only help mitigate why might otherwise be factors leading to "undeserved" DCS hits such as dehydration, alcohol consumption, being fat and out of shape, and exercising and hot showers/tubs after diving. Just having 50% more oxygen with each breath (the difference between 32% and 21%) at the safety stop acts in a similar manner to using a tech diver's deco mix of 50% or 70% or 80% or 100%.

Being fat and out of shape, consuming lots of alcohol which tends to dehydrate one the next morning, exercising by being out of shape and carrying my heavy camera back and forth to the dock, and jumping into a hot shower or hot tub soon after the dive, I totally believe a tank or two a day of nitrox is well worth the expense for me to stay unbent. YMMV.

Now if you'd like me to prove my theory, please find me 1,000 fat and out of shape divers and the money to get them drunk every night, exercise and hot tub them, and dive half of them on nitrox using air tables and half on air for a week, four dives a day, I promise at least twice as many DCS hits among the air divers.

Otherwise, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

Besides, everyone knows nitrox tastes better.
 
Don't have near the experience of Mossman, but I am old and not in the best shape, and 25 nitrox dives in a week in Bonaire after I got certified for nitrox, I was amazed at how I was never fatigued, placebo effect or not. Now I do nitrox on 2nd dives in Coz, makes sense to breathe less nitrogen after a deep first dive. YMMV, but works for me.
 
Don't have near the experience of Mossman, but I am old and not in the best shape, and 25 nitrox dives in a week in Bonaire after I got certified for nitrox, I was amazed at how I was never fatigued, placebo effect or not. Now I do nitrox on 2nd dives in Coz, makes sense to breathe less nitrogen after a deep first dive. YMMV, but works for me.
Who knows if there is something real to that or not? Nothing has been confirmed in studies, and doesn't work for me - I dive Nitrox all week and still enjoy naps, but some day the may find a reason why it works for some. For now, it's anecdotal - but can't hurt within reasonable MODs.

As far as...
1: Divers who have incurred hits being more likely to get bent again;
2: Diving Nitrox on Air tables being safer;
3: Or being dehydrated leads to hits...​
DAN, Duke Medicine, and Rubicon say no to all. These rumors continue to be promoted by Dive Ops, Chamber Docs, and veteran divers - I know, and I wonder if they ever attend or read any DAN updates, but the science goes on without me if needed.

So, it won't hurt to dive Nitrox within reasonable MODs, but it's not a solution. It extends bottom time, up to 50% more. When I dive Nitrox, I will set my computer on the correct O2 level, then try to keep it in the green, just like I do on air - but it's easier on Nitrox.
 
My nitrox course rocked!
I did it in addition to my already paid daily diving so all the "classroom" work was done 1-on-1 on the dive boat to the divesite, between dives and on the way back and as a result I had the instructor who also happened to be a marine biologist to myself all day :D
The dive shop I use for most of my vacation diving have reasonably priced nitrox packages so I dive nitrox as much as possible if I do anything more than a single dive.
Do it, its worth it in the long run :D
 
DAN, Duke Medicine, and Rubicon say no to all. These rumors continue to be promoted by Dive Ops, Chamber Docs, and veteran divers - I know, and I wonder if they ever attend or read any DAN updates, but the science goes on without me if needed.
DAN isn't god, lots of people lost faith after the Bennett scandal. But if they've tried a nitrox-on-air-tables DCS factor mitigation study, I'd love to hear about it. I couldn't find it on their website, but I'm totally open to you pointing the way for me. I do have an acquaintance that was bent during a DAN study so badly that he had no bowel control and was paralyzed from the waist down, but he eventually recovered and was told to dive no shallower than 30 feet. Still, that doesn't answer my research question, so I need 100 volunteers and lots of money stat!
 
Thanks for all the tips and advice
I have lost 225LBS in the past three years and had surgey in december to have 15lbs of skin taken off which might have contributred to my chamber ride in sept. I feeli am in decent shape now and am just going to go to nitrox at least one dive aday and see how i do. I dove in Nov. after my ride in sept. and had no problems. But i knew the dull pain in my side was the first sign in sept. and i didn't know what it was and kept diving and thats when it hit the fan-lol be back in june to try it again. thanks for tips and advice.:D
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom