Another What-About-THIS-Instructor Thread (So Cal)

[Ann Marie]

Welcome to ScubaBoard!

I'm an Instructor and I also work for Sport Chalet. I can tell you that when I take on the responsibility of teaching a class at Sport Chalet I have the freedom to run it the way I feel it needs to be run. Sport Chalet and PADI have standards and SOPs that I have to follow but neither tells me that I have to certify someone in so many classroom, pool or ocean dives. I've had students that whiz thru everything without a problem and then I've had students that I've required to spend more time working on skills either in the pool or in the classroom with me. I've also had students that I've not certified because I didn't feel they were ready and they didn't want to put in the extra time with me.

I've seen Instructors that are wonderful and that are terrible everywhere; just like anything in life (doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, police, etc...). My suggestion is to get the names and numbers of some instructors that like teaching kids and call them. Ask them any questions you have and ask them if they have any previous students that you can contact. I happen to love working with kids but I know instructors that do not. Make sure that your instructor can and will work with someone as young as 10 y/o. I personally would want to talk to that child one-on-one and most likely would want to do a pool session with them before agreeing to take them in my class. I would also probably require you all to do a semi-private session with me instead of a regular class. (With a 10 y/o the maximum number of students I could have in that class would be 4 but, I still would only want you 3.)

I can tell you this; based on what I'm paid and the expenses that I would have to put out to teach you 3 I would be surprised if I made $5 an hour. If you ask most instructors why they teach they will tell you it is for the passion of it. I just finished teaching a semi-private class (Dad and Son) and my reward was the excitement and wonder they showed while diving! My career is in nursing and that pays my bills. The SCUBA Instruction is for me.

 

[Walter]

First, what's a DH (Designated Hitter?) and a DS?

You may want to reconsider your plan to certify a 10 year old child. The decision is certainly yours (assuming it is your child), but you might want to make sure it's something you really want to do. There are those who believe 10 years old is way too young to be emotionally mature enough to handle the responsibilities of diving (heck, I know folks i their 50s who are not emotionally mature enough to handle the responsibility). Make a careful (and try to be objective - tough I know when dealing with your own child) evaluation of your child's maturity before making a final decision.

To find a good class, you'll need to interview instructors you are considering hiring to teach you to dive. Since you don't know much about diving, you'll probably need a little guidance with the interview. Here's my guide to finding an excellent class:

How do I find an above average course and how will I know I've found it?

Interview potential instructors. Most people never ask any questions beyond price. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Excellent instructors will usually have a higher priced class for a number of reasons. The instructor is dedicated toward providing you all the time you need to master necessary knowledge and skills. Extra pool time can be expensive. Keep in mind; the instructor is trying to make a living. His time is valuable.

Consider alternatives. While many instructors teach through dive shops, some of the best are independent instructors or affiliated with colleges, universities or YMCA's.

Questions to ask the instructors:

How long have you been teaching? Most instructors improve over time. They learn new techniques and get ideas from other instructors and through experience to improve their classes.

Do you certify all your students? Only instructors who are in a hurry and care nothing about your safety will answer yes. You want an instructor who will require you to be safe and knowledgeable before issuing a c-card. An excellent instructor might tell you that he is willing to keep working with a student until the student either qualifies or gives up.

What skin diving skills will I learn? While there is some disagreement on this point, many professionals believe a solid foundation in skin diving will not only make you a better SCUBA diver, it will make learning SCUBA easier.

Will I learn confidence-building skills? There are some skills which have no direct application to a typical dive, but which do build your confidence as well as your abilities. This, combined with an understanding of the panic cycle, will make you much less likely to panic.

Do you teach the panic cycle? Panic is the most dangerous aspect of diving. Many instructors do not understand panic and believe there is no way to combat it. In actuality, panic is understood. It is though learning the panic cycle and by increasing skill levels that panic is avoided.

Do your students swim with their hands? This will let you know if the instructor pays attention to details. Good divers do not use their hands for swimming.

Do you work on trim? Divers should usually be horizontal in the water. Good instructors will see that students are striving towards good trim. Poor instructors often neglect it.

Do you overweight your students? Many instructors overweight students. It is not a good practice.

What method do you use to correctly weight your students? Any answer that does not involve actually getting in the water means you want to avoid that instructor.

How many people will be in my class? Small classes are better. You'll have more individual attention. Unless the instructor is using certified assistants, more than four students are difficult to watch.

How many certified assistants will you be using? Unless the class is relatively large (more than 4 students) this should not be an issue. An instructor should have a certified Divemaster or Assistant Instructor for every two students over four. There are times when divers working on their Divemaster or Assistant Instructor certifications assist with a class. This is normal and not an issue, but they do not count toward the assistants an instructor should have when working with larger classes.

Will I be learning skills kneeling on the pool bottom or mid-water? This question is not critical, but will let you know if you've found an instructor who has a great deal on the ball. The over whelming majority of instructors (even good instructors) teach skills kneeling on the bottom. Don't eliminate instructors who do. Some instructors have realized your mask will flood while you are swimming, not when you are sitting on the bottom. You need to learn skills in the manner in which you'll be using them.

Do you dive for fun or just when you are teaching? Instructors who've stopped diving for fun are burned out.

Questions to ask yourself:

Is the instructor patient? While talking with your potential instructor, you should be getting a feel for his personality. Patience is an important quality for an instructor. You want to avoid instructors with a drill sergeant demeanor.

Would I be happier learning from a man or a woman? Only you can answer that question, but in general it is not usually a serious consideration. There are excellent instructors and there are poor instructors. Men and women fall into both groups.

 

[Teamcasa]

..but since I am a free-thinking woman, I decided to start checking on my own. Not just because I must be contrary - but this instructor is going to train my 10yo DS, so... 'nuff said.

Sharky's Eco Diving in La Verne (I know it is a long ways away 40min from you) but they have the BEST female instructors I've ever witnessed that work with kids all the time.

Here is a short video I shot of the two of them working with two young boys just recently.

 

[rsldonk]

Don't get caught up in which shop is better, in regards to certification, that's honestly irrelevant. There are plenty of great instructors who are not even affiliated with a specific shop. Also, just because a shop has been around forever doesn't mean its good. One of the shops around here has been around for 20 years, but now, the guy who runs it just has a note taped to the door that has his phone number in case you want to buy anything. A few years ago, that was the best place to go, now, he's burned out and doesn't care. Things change.

I think that an on site pool does have advantages, since it will reduce many of your costs. If you have to pay for a pool session at a public pool, that can add up very quickly in your costs. I know that ideally, cost should not be an issue, but the reality is, cost does matter. Also convenience, especially for a 10 year old, think of all the other scheduled things you have to play with to get him to classes and again, that's where an on-site pool helps. Another local issue here, one of the shops does have its own pool, but it's not heated. The owner/instructor literally puts all students in a 5 mm wetsuit for pool sessions. He's a great instructor, but that issue there really distracts from the instruction he gives.

Keep doing the research, I know that you shouldn't have much problem in SoCal finding a good instructor/facility since there are plenty. Just make sure especially with your son you are doing the right thing. No matter what the image, diving IS dangerous and should not be something that you just start into lightly. There is a reason why you sign all the waivers before you start, keep that in mind.

 

[fnfalman]

Don't get caught up in which shop is better, in regards to certification, that's honestly irrelevant. There are plenty of great instructors who are not even affiliated with a specific shop.

Yep. I know two female instructors who are very conscientious and they (unrelated to each other in any way) work with certain shops as far as gears rental go but otherwise they're independent instructors.

PM me if you want their contact info.

SoCal is a big diving mecca, so after the OW certs, go diving with us board members and we'll help you, your husband and son plumbed up in no time. No matter how well intentioned the instructors are, they can't teach you everything down to the last letter in a basic OW class. They're limited by time and cost.

 

[Damselfish]

Having said that... generally speaking, if you have a specialty store, regardless of what is sold there, the specialty store usually has more information about and is more skilled in their specific topic/product/service.

it's not the "store" that has the expertise, it's the people

In this particular case, you have an LDS that's been in the same location for 30 years, and a general sports store that happens to also do OW cert and has it's own on-site pool. Just based on those two criteria, as a much more experienced diver than myself, who would you go to first? (no snarkiness meant, truly!)

those 2 criteria aren't enough to determine or assume anything.

 

[on_two_wheels]

it's not the "store" that has the expertise, it's the people

those 2 criteria aren't enough to determine or assume anything.

I absolutely agree that it's the people. However, if I'm a diver and get a job in the scuba dept, I'll be an instructor in relatively short amount of time. That's easy money for the shop. I met a guy at a sport chalet that had been certified as an instructor. He'd been diving for about a year and a half. That's why the questions mentioned above are a great idea. I've had three instructors through sport chalet. Two seemed to be in a BIG hurry to get the instruction done, one was great. The only sport chalet I'd deal with now is mira loma. Most experienced and patient guys I've seen at any dive shop.....so far.

 

[Damselfish]

right. So wouldn't the Sports Chalet instructor that was great be a better choice than one that happened to work out of a long term LDS and sucked?

My point was that choosing simply based on large chain/small store is not the way to go. Ok, maybe your odds would be better at the small store, but I don't think going with the odds makes any sense when there's better ways to choose. As you said yourself, "That's why the questions mentioned above are a great idea."

 

[Saffy]

@fnfalman - you're first reply made me laugh (in a good way)... I can understand how a mother-hen could get caught up looking after her own little chick rather than herself, so that's something I'm going to have to keep in mind. Also, the protective hubby is a good point, too. He's already talking about a wireless computer that tracks your buddy's levels as well as your own. Which, I know, is not necessarily a BAD thing.

And I will say (and not because he's my son), my 10yo is pretty mature for his age. I wouldn't pursue something that is so technically complex if he weren't. Plus, we won't be doing any real deep or complicated dives anytime in the near future.

Again, the info you have given is incredible - and way more than I expected. Awesome board!!

 

[muddiver]

Have you considerd Holywood Divers? They have been around a lot longer than Sports Chalet, no reflection on Ann Marie because she is a good, pacient instructor.

Dive Shop Location: 3575 Cahuenga Blvd. West, Los Angeles, CA

They have been involved with the Aquarium of the Pacific dive program and there are a lot of knowledgable instructors there.