Anti-Fogging Treatments for New Masks. (a comparison of techniques)

[lowviz]

The last issue that is preventing me from writing this up is the unanswered question of what, exactly, is making the glass so amazingly hydrophilic when using only ammonium hydroxide. Try it, the result is dramatic.

Is it super-cleaning or hydroxylation or nanostructuring of the glass surface? For ammonia, it is beginning to look like it is all three. Grand Slam. Simplest 'all in one place' justification that I can come up with is given here:

The following research article is concerned with producing a hydrophobic glass surface. However, the researchers first make the surface super-hydrophilic using ammonium hydroxide, time, and temperature. Time and temperature are trade-offs. Increase one, decrease the other for a similar result.

Ammonium hydroxide appears to clean, hydroxylate, and nanostructure a typical glass surface:

I'm offering only the very basics here, you can get a bit more insight by paying for access (like I had to) and reading the journal article for full info:
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.apsusc.2019.144843

Quoting:
'Glass surface was nanotextured by etching process, using a facile hydrothermal processing, based on the interaction between ammonium hydroxide (NH4OH) and glass surface.'

Untreated


Treated

More coming as to why the structured glass (second pic) is far superior to our off-the-shelf dive masks...

 

[stuartv]

Ladies and germs, I bear tidings of woe.

I purchased this mask in January, as part of my mission to try 17 thouzillion masks, until I find The One Mask That Does Not Leak (on me). I have done maybe 1/2 a dozen dives with it. Back when I first got it, I did the usual scrubbing treatment, and possibly even burned the inside of the lens. I don't remember. A bit over a week ago, I ran it through the dishwasher along with 4 other masks and then put all 5 in ammonia last Sunday. I just took them out (i.e. after 7 days).

Out of the 5 masks, 4 have no signs of damage. One is the DGX Ultraview with their Anti-Reflective Coating. That is a very obviously visible coating and it appears to be unaffected by the ammonia soak.

But, when I took this one out, I saw pieces of something in the bottom of the container of ammonia. It turns out the bezel on the outside of the mask broke into multiple pieces and became detached.

I am going to reach out to the manufacturer and see what they have to say about it. I reckon it could be anything from "send it back and we'll send you a new one" to "you did what?!?! Sorry, fella. You ruined your mask. That's not on us."

Until I get a response from them, I'm not going to post what brand or model it is, and if you recognize it, I would prefer that you not say, either. I'll post more details after the manufacturer has a chance to respond.

I wanted to post now, in advance of getting a response from the manufacturer, as a caution to those of you who may be soaking or planning to soak your own masks. I have soaked the following masks (for a week, except where noted) with no apparent ill effects:

DGX UltraView
DGX UltraView ARC
Atomic Aquatics Subframe ARC (I think I only soaked this one for 2 days)
Deep6 Gear Signature Black
Mako Minimus
Hollis M-1

This is a picture with one piece put back in place, just so you can have an idea of what it is supposed to look like.

And here is what it actually looks like now. Yes, all those pieces broke off spontaneously, while soaking. The two black slivers are actually pieces of the mask frame itself, one from each side of the mask, right up against a portion of the bezel that came off. All the other pieces are from the bezel itself. I was hoping that I could just get a new bezel to glue in and be good as new, but those 2 black slivers mean even a new bezel would not put it back to 100% like new.

 

[lowviz]

Thank you for this information! Treating and reporting on your collection of different masks is most valuable.

You have probably saved someone a fair amount of money.

Has anyone else had a less than optimal experience with ammonia soaking a particular mask? Please post! It will be in the write-up...

(BTW, @stuartv, nicely handled with respect to the manufacturer. Kind of unfair to expect anyone to deal with anything other than routine use. )

 

[stuartv]

Thank you for this information! Treating and reporting on your collection of different masks is most valuable.

You have probably saved someone a fair amount of money.

Has anyone else had a less than optimal experience with ammonia soaking a particular mask? Please post! It will be in the write-up...

(BTW, @stuartv, nicely handled with respect to the manufacturer. Kind of unfair to expect anyone to deal with anything other than routine use. )

Yeah, I emailed them. I told them that I can't remember for sure, but I probably flamed the lens when I got it in January - as well as scrubbing with Dawn. And then I fully disclosed the recent dishwasher treatment and 7 days in ammonia. I don't expect them to warranty it - but I did want to give them the opportunity. If they do, then I will keep using their masks (if it turns out to not leak on me - which still remains to be seen). If they don't, well, that's fine. I cannot say they'd be "doing me wrong" by not covering it under warranty. But, I have to say that I would also not buy any more of their masks. It's not an issue of hard feelings or that they did me wrong. It would simply be the fact that there are (obviously, now) lots of masks out there, cheaper and more expensive, that can handle this treatment without falling apart. So, why would I buy anything that CAN'T handle this fog-resistance prep protocol?

I will update after I hear back from them.

I really wish I could remember for sure if I flamed this mask or not. I have no way of knowing whether the heat from flaming it caused the bezel to fail, or if it was the ammonia, or if was actually the combination of the two and either one would be fine by itself. But, I imagine that I did flame it.

 

[lowviz]

I doubt that flaming has anything to do with an outside bezel.

why would I buy anything that CAN'T handle this fog-resistance prep protocol?

Yeah, but MAYBE the manufacturers should be offering a line of quality masks that are pre-seasoned and pre-coated with some sort of storage defog coating BEFORE they ship?

This fogging problem on new masks came into existence with advent of frameless masks -- those where the glass retainer cannot be mechanically removed.

Never forget this.

 

[lexvil]

Who knows what the outside trim pieces are made of but it may not like ammonia. I also don’t know why masks don’t come pretreated so all of this would be moot.

So far I have my one mask doing the inside soak, going on day 4 tomorrow.

 

[Umuntu]

Ladies and germs, I bear tidings of woe.

I purchased this mask in January, as part of my mission to try 17 thouzillion masks, until I find The One Mask That Does Not Leak (on me). I have done maybe 1/2 a dozen dives with it. Back when I first got it, I did the usual scrubbing treatment, and possibly even burned the inside of the lens. I don't remember. A bit over a week ago, I ran it through the dishwasher along with 4 other masks and then put all 5 in ammonia last Sunday. I just took them out (i.e. after 7 days).

Out of the 5 masks, 4 have no signs of damage. One is the DGX Ultraview with their Anti-Reflective Coating. That is a very obviously visible coating and it appears to be unaffected by the ammonia soak.

But, when I took this one out, I saw pieces of something in the bottom of the container of ammonia. It turns out the bezel on the outside of the mask broke into multiple pieces and became detached.

I am going to reach out to the manufacturer and see what they have to say about it. I reckon it could be anything from "send it back and we'll send you a new one" to "you did what?!?! Sorry, fella. You ruined your mask. That's not on us."

Until I get a response from them, I'm not going to post what brand or model it is, and if you recognize it, I would prefer that you not say, either. I'll post more details after the manufacturer has a chance to respond.

I wanted to post now, in advance of getting a response from the manufacturer, as a caution to those of you who may be soaking or planning to soak your own masks. I have soaked the following masks (for a week, except where noted) with no apparent ill effects:

DGX UltraView
DGX UltraView ARC
Atomic Aquatics Subframe ARC (I think I only soaked this one for 2 days)
Deep6 Gear Signature Black
Mako Minimus
Hollis M-1

This is a picture with one piece put back in place, just so you can have an idea of what it is supposed to look like.

View attachment 581554

And here is what it actually looks like now. Yes, all those pieces broke off spontaneously, while soaking. The two black slivers are actually pieces of the mask frame itself, one from each side of the mask, right up against a portion of the bezel that came off. All the other pieces are from the bezel itself. I was hoping that I could just get a new bezel to glue in and be good as new, but those 2 black slivers mean even a new bezel would not put it back to 100% like new.

View attachment 581555

This makes me consider @lexvil 's inside only ammonia soak as being a little safer.

 

[lexvil]

A question for lowviz, have you repeated the drop test on the ammonia treated glass?

 

[stuartv]

I was wondering if the mask that lost it's exterior bezel had also lost its seal between the frame and glass.

I filled the inside of the mask with water and let it sit on a paper towel. After an hour or so the paper towel was soaked.

So much for that mask...

 

[lexvil]

I was wondering if the mask that lost it's exterior bezel had also lost its seal between the frame and glass.

I filled the inside of the mask with water and let it sit on a paper towel. After an hour or so the paper towel was soaked.

So much for that mask...

Damn, since this is an unauthorized experiment and no fault can be assigned to the maker letting people know the brand may be of service to all.