Any reason to have some dives logged on paper and signed/verified?

[Frosty]

Elgoog-There are a couple of reasons I personally have experienced to have paper logs.
1)Being allowed to dive byt a dive boat etc without a checkout dive first.
2)Theres a minimum number of logged dives required to go pro -paper proof is verifiable electronic log can be faked.
3)its a quick reference to what weight etc to setup with when you are at a divesite. Its also a really good way to chart your progress.
ie less weight needed as you get more experienced. better bottom times maybe.-especially iof theres gaps in your diving.

 

[elgoog]

I don't have any aspirations to pursue the dive pro track, so not too worried about that. As far as dive ops and training, it probably makes sense to get in touch with them ahead of time to see what requirements they have.
I use the spreadsheets in Google Drive so everything's already backed up, online and easily accessible from everywhere, including on my phone.

I'm a data junkie, and I love being able to review them whenever I like!

I am as well, my wife-buddy teases me about it constantly

Plus, you can do this:
[VIMEO]74250512[/VIMEO]

Super cool!!

all very true doctormike - I'm just one of those retro sort of guys who like to read stuff on paper with pages... and I like logbooks with signatures and stamps and stickers!

I do too but carrying my dive folder onto dive boats quickly got nerve wracking for me as I was terrified of getting any of my pages wet Also, since, I actually got one of those 3 ring folders, it took up a non-trivial amount of space in my dive bag. I still have most of my paper dive logs but was trying to decide if it was worth continuing with them.

Thanks all,
elgoog

---------- Post added April 30th, 2015 at 01:59 PM ----------

1)Being allowed to dive byt a dive boat etc without a checkout dive first.

Interesting, I was not aware of this practice. Is the checkout dive usually to gauge overall experience and skill in the water or for something specific like wreck/deep diving?

2)Theres a minimum number of logged dives required to go pro -paper proof is verifiable electronic log can be faked.

Can't you also fake paper logs in same way? I dive with my wife-buddy 95% of the time and, if I really wanted to, I could just create a bunch of pages with dive info and have her sign them. If anything, I think digital would be harder to fake if you're downloading the dive data from your dive computer.

3)its a quick reference to what weight etc to setup with when you are at a divesite. Its also a really good way to chart your progress.
ie less weight needed as you get more experienced. better bottom times maybe.-especially iof theres gaps in your diving.

I'm keeping track of this in my spreadsheet with a lot of detail.

Thanks,
elgoog

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with Crowley about paper logging 100 dives-Instructor or Solo Course requirement. I don't THINK agencies themselves require more than that for anything. Hard to say about charter ops. As far as signatures, etc., I don't think course requirements say anything other than like "number of required logged dives", etc. The usual definition of an "official" logged dive is 15' for 20 minutes or something similar. I log everything (except pool) and always get a signature if possible. Do solo dives count? Who knows? No one has ever looked at my book(s) for anything, course or charter. But that's just me.

 

[boulderjohn]

2)Theres a minimum number of logged dives required to go pro -paper proof is verifiable electronic log can be faked.

Anything can be faked!

*Buy a used computer and you have an instant proof that you did all kinds of dives in places you couldn't find on a map.
*Get a fishing pole and drop your computer in the water. Change depths every now and then.
*Tell me I really need 50 more dives in my paper log book for the program starting to tomorrow and I'll have it for you by then easily. If you want signatures, I'll give you signatures. If you want signatures from really famous people, I can give you them, too.
*If I need to have a bunch of dives by tomorrow and want to go one more step up the ladder of responsibility, I can jump in and out of the water enough times to qualify in no time. There's even a name for this--teabagging. I know someone who wanted to go to an instructor development program in a couple months and was not sure he would have the required number of dives by then. They told him to do that.​

Minimum dive requirements for programs like divemaster, instructor, etc., are really just a minor screening device they hope you will follow honestly, but if you don't, it's no big deal. They are just screening tools to get the right people into the program. Once you start the program, you don't complete it until you demonstrate the required skills. The number of dives you have isn't relevant if your skills suck.

 

[doctormike]

Elgoog-There are a couple of reasons I personally have experienced to have paper logs.
1)Being allowed to dive byt a dive boat etc without a checkout dive first.

I still think that this is an urban legend, at least for 2015. I wouldn't say that it has never happened to anyone in the past, it's a big world out there and you can find an example for anything. But would be surprised to find a dive op that currently would accept a paper log and not a digital one.

2)Theres a minimum number of logged dives required to go pro -paper proof is verifiable electronic log can be faked.

Unless you are in the habit of having your log pages notarized, not sure where this idea comes from. If you are determined to fake your way into a hypoxic trimix course with 10 shallow reef dives, you might just be able to do it. As Boulderjohn said, anything can be faked.

3)its a quick reference to what weight etc to setup with when you are at a divesite. Its also a really good way to chart your progress.
ie less weight needed as you get more experienced. better bottom times maybe.-especially iof theres gaps in your diving.

Yes, this is a reason to log dives, not sure why paper logs would be preferable in this situation.

Seriously, this comes up all the time, and for the life of me I can't figure out why people are so attached to paper logs. With the possible exception of Crowley's point above (some people just really like the feel and ritual of writing out log pages by hand), what's the advantage?

My logs have far more information than I would ever bother write down (complete profiles with all of the raw data, extensive comments, big blocks of dive site descriptive text cut and pasted from online resources, full gear lists, buddy and dive op contact info, etc...). All of this information is always instantly available to me, wherever I am (since I always have my phone with me). Even if I drop my phone into an active volcano, all of that data is totally secure, backed up, etc.. A paper log is a flammable, drownable physical object that can be easily lost.

I mean, are people still going to banks where they record your deposits and withdrawals in a big book?

I totally understand not bothering to log dives. I totally understand choosing paper logs because you like the look and feel of paper. But I don't understand the idea that paper logs have any operational advantage over digital logs, especially for someone who likes to keep a lot of data.

 

[Steve_C]

Some ops may want you to show you have dived within the previous X months or that you have a deep dive within the last Y months.

Their asking is some protection for THEM. If you fake the book they are still off the hook.

Only time I worry about signatures was when taking courses. THen I got the instructors signature and number.

I have a paper log book. With me on dives I carry the last 10 dives, a few blank pages, and a listing of weight/suit/tank/water combinations of which there are over 30. All remaining log pages are in a thick binder at home.

I also have an excel spread sheet I made up with basic data on each dive.
dive number - date - dive site - depth - run time - temp - comment - viz - state/country/ - Boat operation

It is very helpful if I say what are the temps like this time of year in this place. For amusement one dreary winter day I programmed up some other features. For example, I have 16,641 minutes under water OR 277.35 hours OR 11.55 days.

 

[FiddlerOnTheRoof]

I stopped logging all my dives at around 400. I have over 2000 dives now. The only dives I will keep a record now are the really good ones.

 

[modustollens]

I am in the middle of this issue now - I have paper logs and try to keep track of what I have done - especially details like weight configuration or navigation details for a site that I may not visit often and so will fail to remember; but, since I now have a dive computer which can sync with a PC I can download a digital record of each dive.

I don't want to be duplicating effort - copying digital info into a book or typing written info into a program. But I did buy a program called dive-mate (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.confitek.divemateusb) for my android devices: I can connect my dive computer to my phone and tablet via this app and download the data and enter location and other data into the log too. But I have still not fully switched to only digital logs.

There is a place for someone to sign in dive-mate's digital log using a stylus or finger (I have Samsung Notes so it is easy to use the pen to have people sign); and each log has a spot to take and add a photo - maybe that will take the place of a stamp in the future (maybe a photo of a business card or instructor card)?

I am not new to diving in terms of years; but, I still have advanced courses I wish to do; so, it is nice to have a record of what I have done.

I did have a dive shop look through my book and initially refuse to let me go to a dive site I wanted to go to. But eventually he acquiesced - but I had to pull out the dive logs from something like '91 or so to show that I have dove in the area before and thus knew what I was getting myself into. And one person did not want me to dive below 60 feet - I had not done the advanced course yet. But I had many dives well below that in the previous decade or so. When I first started diving the LDS would not let you take an advanced course until you had 50 dives and there was no 60 foot limit for OW. A lot of changes have occurred since my OW course in '89.

I don't want to have to be forced to pay for a 'scuba-refresher' simply because I have not dove in 6 months or so (and that only because of my work location). I looked at the list of items for review in one of those refresher programs and it looks like they are designed for newly certified divers who have not dove for a long time. My dive history and training record, including my first tech-level course, should prevent that if I am unlucky enough to have someone wish me to do that. Somehow I doubt that would happen though. Has any tech-level diver been asked or forced to do a scuba-refresher course if there has been no dive for the last 6 months?

MT

 

[TN-Steve]

I do mine in a paper log book, just because. Actually can think of one scenario where keeping paper would be useful. Bonne Terre mine in Missouri has something like 32 different trails / routes (all guided tours). You start on trail 1 your first dive, then do each in secession. They don't maintain a record, they stamp your log book, and when you come back the next time, you pick up where you left off. Without the stamped logbook entry, you would be back on trail 1.

Admittedly, that's probably a 1-off situation, but it's one I'm familiar with.

Steve

 

[boulderjohn]

I should have mentioned this before...

If you come to me in any of my instructor roles that require a minimum number of logged dives--DM, instructor training, tech diving--I will accept any form your log is in. I am currently putting my own logged dives on plain sheets of paper, although I do occasionally download from the computer. If you show me a log on an official logbook, a computer printout, a spreadsheet, papyrus--I don't care. What I care about is what you show me once I let you in the course.