Anyone else have a problem with a buddy grabbing your primary?

[StreetDoctor]

I didn't read ALL of the replies but why is your primary hose longer than your octo if you plan on donating your octo?

 

[vjanelle]

You donate your primary so you know you're giving a working regulator to the person that's OOA. If your backup fails you can buddy breathe, vs having a paniced diver bolt (watched someone do this today during a rescue course, got a mouthful of water from an upside down octo)

 

[Splash-X]

It was a live-a-board for two days. I was taking my AOW during the trip and we were going to do all 5 dives in So. Cal. waters off the boat. After my first dive (the OOA dive) I did not dive the rest of the day. I ended up doing only 3 dives on the trip and finished the AOW in our local lake. Peer pressure and the knowledge of what each dive was costing can make a person do things that are not the most intelligent.

It will be a long time before my next live-a-board. I know I need more diving experience with my gear before I add even more stress in unfamiliar waters and conditions.

Steve,

I know how you feel, my first ocean dive was a bit scarey compared to what I had been use to (first boat dive, first drift dive, first ocean dive, etc). I probably wasn't ready for all of those tasks at once. The current was ripping and my wife and I got seperated from the rest of the group. We were luck to keep some people spear fishing in our sights on most of the dive and surfaced with them. My wife felt very uneasy and decided not to dive anymore that day. I was foolish and paired up with some other people on the trip to not look like a whimp. I had a much more enjoyable second dive but boy was I stupid!


I'm glad that your gut told you not to try to dive the rest of the day. I was proud that my wife decided to scrub the rest of her dives because she didn't feel comfortable.

 

[rongoodman]

You donate your primary so you know you're giving a working regulator to the person that's OOA.

And to expand this to dives where you might be carrying rich deco gases, you're giving the stressed OOA diver a regulator known to be working, and known to have the correct gas for the depth you're at.

 

[jh_MacLeod]

I didn't read ALL of the replies but why is your primary hose longer than your octo if you plan on donating your octo?

Because on that day I was experimenting with routing the primary hose under my arm and didn't have a spare 1 meter hose (just the 1.2 m). I have since reverted back to a 29" primary hose, until I have a chance to try out a 36".

 

[jh_MacLeod]

I think the circumstances in which the OoA occurs are pretty important here. Clearly ripping the the DV out your mouth without warning is going to be pretty shocking to you. You could call it inconsiderate by the other diver at least. On the other hand if he's out of air, needs a breath and near panicking surely you're not going to begrudge him a small thing like that. Indeed the question could be asked as a buddy why you weren't more aware of his low air situation beforehand and have been monitoring him and ready with your own primary or octopus or whatever AAS you use.

Yes, I admit it; I wasn't a good buddy, if that means that I should have been monitoring the other person constantly during the dive (Perhaps "What is a good buddy?" would make for a good discussion if you want to start a thread). I don't want to sound callous or say something just to create controversy, but I don't dive because I want to babysit or hold someone's hand. I think the people who know me and with whom I dive regularly would consider me a "more attentive than most" buddy. If someone appears to lack confidence or experience, I will stay close. But, I am not an instructor and I dive for selfish reasons, (and will likely start diving solo when I feel like I have sufficient experience), so if someone appears competent, I give them some space.

In this particular situation, I turned my back on him for approximately 2 minutes, and yes, that is one of the reasons I got surprised. Last I saw him he was 4 meters above and to my right (about 2 o'clock), as we both examined a coral wall. I turned to my left and began to focus on some tiny creatures that interested me. Next thing I know, someone is reaching over my shoulder and grabbing my air. Obviously, if I had gotten some type of audio signal, I would have turned to locate him and made ready to assist. Since he had the presence of mind to close the gap between us, I just think he should have also had the presence of mind to signal while swimming and warn me that he was coming. That he chose to reach past the yellow octopus to grab the regulator in my mouth, just added to my frustration.

I value the experienced opinions which have been expressed in this thread regarding my "primary air grabbing" question, and I now accept that I must be prepared to calmly deal with this possibility. But, I'm still not sure that I fully buy into the extension of this logic, "that the best approach is to allow the panicked person to do whatever they want with your equipment". The very fact that they are "not" handling their situation makes me want to "impose" some order. I'm not ready to advocate the "hit them in the ear" approach, but I'm also not convinced that the "give them my pacifier" and a hug approach is the best method either.

I didn't give the OOA details originally, because I didn't think they were particularly relevant to the "procedural" question I wanted to ask. This incident occurred mid-dive and he thought he was OOA (and that is what was important). But, as it turned out, his tank still had air; and after returning to the boat, his reg was working on the surface. He said that his reg got hard to breathe and stopped working. Maybe he accumulated too much CO2, got excited and felt like he wasn't getting any air, I don't know. In any case, after we were both breathing on my tank, both of us were ready for a lesurely ascent to the surface, so we made no attempt to investigate it underwater.

John

 

[timle]

I really think you are reading too much into this. I see you put "that the best approach..." in quotes - however I did not find that quote in this thread. I think the vast majority of divers are going to agree that a signal and donation is "the best approach". However many of us believe an OOA diver may sneak up and mug you before you know what is happening - I'd like to think you would agree with that at this point - and choose to plan for it - because we recognize it is one of the many things in under the surface we can not control.

Even if you watch your buddy the entire time - not much fun - another diver who is not your buddy may do this if you are diving on a busy site. Do a search it has happened and been reported here.

I think surprises can be reduced by not diving with insta-buddies - as they may agree to do anything just to get in the water.

 

[LiteHedded]

this is what's going to happen. so my advice is to be prepared for it.

Yes, I admit it; I wasn't a good buddy, if that means that I should have been monitoring the other person constantly during the dive (Perhaps "What is a good buddy?" would make for a good discussion if you want to start a thread). I don't want to sound callous or say something just to create controversy, but I don't dive because I want to babysit or hold someone's hand. I think the people who know me and with whom I dive regularly would consider me a "more attentive than most" buddy. If someone appears to lack confidence or experience, I will stay close. But, I am not an instructor and I dive for selfish reasons, (and will likely start diving solo when I feel like I have sufficient experience), so if someone appears competent, I give them some space.

In this particular situation, I turned my back on him for approximately 2 minutes, and yes, that is one of the reasons I got surprised. Last I saw him he was 4 meters above and to my right (about 2 o'clock), as we both examined a coral wall. I turned to my left and began to focus on some tiny creatures that interested me. Next thing I know, someone is reaching over my shoulder and grabbing my air. Obviously, if I had gotten some type of audio signal, I would have turned to locate him and made ready to assist. Since he had the presence of mind to close the gap between us, I just think he should have also had the presence of mind to signal while swimming and warn me that he was coming. That he chose to reach past the yellow octopus to grab the regulator in my mouth, just added to my frustration.

I value the experienced opinions which have been expressed in this thread regarding my "primary air grabbing" question, and I now accept that I must be prepared to calmly deal with this possibility. But, I'm still not sure that I fully buy into the extension of this logic, "that the best approach is to allow the panicked person to do whatever they want with your equipment". The very fact that they are "not" handling their situation makes me want to "impose" some order. I'm not ready to advocate the "hit them in the ear" approach, but I'm also not convinced that the "give them my pacifier" and a hug approach is the best method either.

I didn't give the OOA details originally, because I didn't think they were particularly relevant to the "procedural" question I wanted to ask. This incident occurred mid-dive and he thought he was OOA (and that is what was important). But, as it turned out, his tank still had air; and after returning to the boat, his reg was working on the surface. He said that his reg got hard to breathe and stopped working. Maybe he accumulated too much CO2, got excited and felt like he wasn't getting any air, I don't know. In any case, after we were both breathing on my tank, both of us were ready for a lesurely ascent to the surface, so we made no attempt to investigate it underwater.

John

it's not really a give them a pacifier approach but rather a 'save their life' approach. have the octo vs primary discussion later on the boat or dry land
as for why it happened, it sounds like his valve wasn't all the way open

 

[ligersandtions]

If you're LOA/OOA, my primary is here for you. Calmly signal me or rip it out of my mouth....I don't really care all that much. I'll put my bungeed back-up in and we'll take a moment to calm down and then make our exit. With any of my regular buddies, I'd fully expect we'd make all the normal stops on our ascent....with anyone else, I'd do my best to control the ascent and hit the stops.

But my primary will be here for you....please don't be shy