AOW, but I don't think I'm any good- how to improve?

[Edward3c]

No, actually, I got the OW and AOW in Asia. I'm part-French, and speak it fluently, so that wouldn't have been a problem

fjpartrum, he doesn't take care of me, and doesn't do all the work. In fact, he doesn't do anything for me. He isn't a particularly good swimmer, plus he ascends halfway through the dive anyways. So I just stay with the DM in the end (the DM suggested this, or I'd never get to see anything)
In fact, it should be the other way round, given that he can't keep up if there's current or surge, and tends to thud to the bottom/shoot up at descents and ascents. But what can I even do then? I mean, I don't see what I can do to help him as a buddy, in those scenarios. (Any suggestions? Say he can't cross a 30m stretch of strong current, that I can swim across without too much effort. What can I do?)

I'd rather be self-reliant, if possible :/

And given that we only dive on holidays, the other option is insta-buddies, who tend to be older guys I'm not comfortable with. I'm a 17 y old girl, and I don't care how my wetsuit+BC fits, it's not an excuse! Even my dad is a better option than that. I've had unpleasant experiences ><
(Tip to guys on resort dives- don't assume that someone doesn't understand a specific language based on their appearance. If you are going to make rude comments, check first that that caucasian-looking girl in front of you is not multicultural and multilingual.)

(I guess that's why I think a course would be a good idea)

As for comfort, I'm comfortable in water- without scuba gear. I just feel like I'm fighting it all the time.
I just checked some videos from those dives- yep, I don't bump into anything or cause silt, but I can tilt up to 30 degree angle, and I'm constantly clearing my mask (it had a leak), trying to adjust my weight belt, and keep my too big and quite heavy fins from chaffing. And I need to remember to keep my legs bent.
If I stop moving, like was suggested somewhere, and just let go, I'd probably naturally float at a 45degree angle. So it's a struggle to stay either vertical or horizontal. I wish I could fasten my weight belt around my ribs :s

I made the cardinal mistake of assuming. I apologise.

I wish more people in your age group where so passionate.

Sorry I can’t offer you any suggestions apart from keep at it – it will come.

 

[DuboisP]

Lisa1234, i don't know where you're living in France (what a marvellous country with so marvellous people) , but there are a lot of diving instructors and diving sites where you can learn a lot, else in PADI courses or in the "french" system.

 

[lowviz]

...//... Rec dive planning ain't rocket science. ...//...

Your first planned dive should be something like asking what the maximum and average depths for the dive will be and then calculating your time to 1) hitting minimum safe gas reserve and time to 2) Getting too close to your NDL. Having done this a few times, you will find that you can get anywhere you want to be with respect to planning.

In short: you will need to know what fill you hit the water with, the cylinder characteristics, your NDL for that depth (tables ), and your SAC.

 

[WhiteSands]

I just got the AOW, but I really don't think I'm much good. I've done about... 50 dives? In 4 years. I haven't planned a dive, or anything, and just follow the DM around (in warm, clear water).


The AOW, for me, was kind of useless. I did it because I was told I wouldn't be allowed to do night dives/more than 18m/drift diving/ect without it. But I didn't learn anything. The nav dive was a joke, we just had to swim a 10 kick cycle long triangle and square in perfect visibility, to pass. Deep dive? Just follow the instructor and your computer, you don't need to know anything about the theory or tables or whatever. Fish ID? That's a clown fish! Do a dive at 7pm, and take a few snapshots underwater, and you're done.


I did the OW when I was 13, and now don't remember much about what was taught (like the theory and stuff) especially because the place I took the OW didn't have the book in english, so everything was orally translated, and very vague. Dive tables are a distant memory. I've started keeping a logbook, but didn't have one for my first 40 or so dives
I think my buyoncy is kind of OK, but I can only compare myself to other 'resort divers' so it's probably not. I can control where I go with my breathing, and challenged myself to not take my hands off the camera on my last dive, and managed. But I can't stay vertical on the safety stops. And how do you improve your trim with rented gear?


I want to get better. I'd love to get the kind of control I saw on some technical diving youtube videos. Maybe get good at underwater photography. Maybe, in the very distant future, cave diving or solo diving?


But I'm 17, and can only go diving with my dad, who is perfectly happy being a 'resort diver'. Is there anything I could do to improve? A course, lessons? The resort that gave me de AOW suggested getting the 'rescue diving' because it was 'fun'. Given their version of the AOW, I wonder if I'd learn anything. I'm just not sure what to do!

I was in the same boat as you. A friend recommended me to UTD (which I've never heard of before) and after talking to the instructor, I signed up immediately. UTD is still not well known here in SE Asia.

I highly recommend it. The content covered in the course was really solid, especially the ascent planning, understanding the properties of different gases and why they are good/bad under what situations, team positioning during a dive (we keep knocking into each other), and of course the best part, correcting your buoyancy and trim and teaching you the basic propulsion techniques to help prevent silting and save energy/air on a dive.

It was also eye-opening to learn about the different models used to create dive tables (dissolved gas vs bubble), the assumptions behind the theories and why some stuff I learned at PADI are actually obsolete and should not be followed.

I really should've been taught all these during OW, but was never taught even in AOW. AOW to me was just for the card to dive deep and do night dives.

Plus if you consider the amount of time you have to put into studying, classroom time and best of all, in-water time for your training, the PADI course just pales in comparison. And over here, the UTD OW is not much more expensive than the PADI OW course.

Essentials of Recreational Diving - Unified Team Diving

Go to youtube and look up Extreme Scuba Makeover. This is also covered in the EOR course. I very highly recommend it.

(My instructor was very very patient. He will teach you until you're competent, no extra charge, even if it means extra sessions in the pool / classroom).

 

[lisa1234]

DuboisP- do you know anything about the ffessem? I've heard a lot of conflicted opinions about it. When I did swimming, I saw a group of them at the pool every week, and I admit I'm not particularly interested in swimming laps in a shallow pool an hour a week in scuba gear. I mean, I'd do it if I had to, but...

I found the GUE approach interesting, but I've heard that you have to dive regularly. I'm leaving home for (the equivalent of) college soon, so I'm not sure if I could dive very often during that time :/ So I'm mainly a 'vacation diver' right now and I don't think that's what they are aimed for? (And isn't owning gear expensive in this case?)


I do have some questions, if anyone could help?


If your buddy is ascending/descending too fast (despite emptying their bc), is there anything you can/should do?

What if they have a hard time swimming in a certain area- (say 20-30m, perpendicular to a current, not too strong but strong enough that I saw the DM hold on to some whip coral). Can/should you help them, if so, how?

I found the dolphin kick to be easiest in the area where there was current, but I've never heard of scuba divers using it. Any reason why?

I carried 3x1kg weights, could I have put one on my tank and 2 in my pockets? It wouldn't be too hard to get those in my pockets out if I had to, I think, and might have helped me stay horizontal?

When taking photos, I found it easier to be a bit tilted 'heads down', to have more space to move while being sure not to kick anything, is there anything wrong with this?

How do you get better at navigation if you have to follow a DM around?

Sorry if any of these questions seem silly

 

[johnkendall]

DuboisP- do you know anything about the ffessem? I've heard a lot of conflicted opinions about it. When I did swimming, I saw a group of them at the pool every week, and I admit I'm not particularly interested in swimming laps in a shallow pool an hour a week in scuba gear. I mean, I'd do it if I had to, but...

I found the GUE approach interesting, but I've heard that you have to dive regularly. I'm leaving home for (the equivalent of) college soon, so I'm not sure if I could dive very often during that time :/ So I'm mainly a 'vacation diver' right now and I don't think that's what they are aimed for? (And isn't owning gear expensive in this case?)


I do have some questions, if anyone could help?


If your buddy is ascending/descending too fast (despite emptying their bc), is there anything you can/should do?

What if they have a hard time swimming in a certain area- (say 20-30m, perpendicular to a current, not too strong but strong enough that I saw the DM hold on to some whip coral). Can/should you help them, if so, how?

I found the dolphin kick to be easiest in the area where there was current, but I've never heard of scuba divers using it. Any reason why?

I carried 3x1kg weights, could I have put one on my tank and 2 in my pockets? It wouldn't be too hard to get those in my pockets out if I had to, I think, and might have helped me stay horizontal?

When taking photos, I found it easier to be a bit tilted 'heads down', to have more space to move while being sure not to kick anything, is there anything wrong with this?

How do you get better at navigation if you have to follow a DM around?

Sorry if any of these questions seem silly

To become good at diving you need to do it regularly, doesn't matter what style of diving you do, the only way of getting better at it is practice. Have a look at your university, they may have a diving club, which is a great way of getting more chances/time in the water, and also allows you to dive with other people.

Regarding propulsion techniques, different techniques work better in different environments, however there are also massive differences in fins. A lot of people have very floppy fins which are pretty terrible against high currents.

 

[AfterDark]

I just got the AOW, but I really don't think I'm much good. I've done about... 50 dives? In 4 years. I haven't planned a dive, or anything, and just follow the DM around (in warm, clear water).


The AOW, for me, was kind of useless. I did it because I was told I wouldn't be allowed to do night dives/more than 18m/drift diving/ect without it. But I didn't learn anything. The nav dive was a joke, we just had to swim a 10 kick cycle long triangle and square in perfect visibility, to pass. Deep dive? Just follow the instructor and your computer, you don't need to know anything about the theory or tables or whatever. Fish ID? That's a clown fish! Do a dive at 7pm, and take a few snapshots underwater, and you're done.


I did the OW when I was 13, and now don't remember much about what was taught (like the theory and stuff) especially because the place I took the OW didn't have the book in english, so everything was orally translated, and very vague. Dive tables are a distant memory. I've started keeping a logbook, but didn't have one for my first 40 or so dives
I think my buyoncy is kind of OK, but I can only compare myself to other 'resort divers' so it's probably not. I can control where I go with my breathing, and challenged myself to not take my hands off the camera on my last dive, and managed. But I can't stay vertical on the safety stops. And how do you improve your trim with rented gear?


I want to get better. I'd love to get the kind of control I saw on some technical diving youtube videos. Maybe get good at underwater photography. Maybe, in the very distant future, cave diving or solo diving?


But I'm 17, and can only go diving with my dad, who is perfectly happy being a 'resort diver'. Is there anything I could do to improve? A course, lessons? The resort that gave me de AOW suggested getting the 'rescue diving' because it was 'fun'. Given their version of the AOW, I wonder if I'd learn anything. I'm just not sure what to do!

Welcome to the new world of diving where very few fail as long as they have the money to pay for the course. Join a dive club, find a mentor that is an experienced diver and dive and learn. We learn to dive by diving, the course only gets you to the starting line. There isn't much to learn in AOW anyway. Good luck safe diving.

 

[Peter69_56]

DuboisP- do you know anything about the ffessem? I've heard a lot of conflicted opinions about it. When I did swimming, I saw a group of them at the pool every week, and I admit I'm not particularly interested in swimming laps in a shallow pool an hour a week in scuba gear. I mean, I'd do it if I had to, but...

I found the GUE approach interesting, but I've heard that you have to dive regularly. I'm leaving home for (the equivalent of) college soon, so I'm not sure if I could dive very often during that time :/ So I'm mainly a 'vacation diver' right now and I don't think that's what they are aimed for? (And isn't owning gear expensive in this case?)


I do have some questions, if anyone could help?


If your buddy is ascending/descending too fast (despite emptying their bc), is there anything you can/should do?

What if they have a hard time swimming in a certain area- (say 20-30m, perpendicular to a current, not too strong but strong enough that I saw the DM hold on to some whip coral). Can/should you help them, if so, how?

I found the dolphin kick to be easiest in the area where there was current, but I've never heard of scuba divers using it. Any reason why?

I carried 3x1kg weights, could I have put one on my tank and 2 in my pockets? It wouldn't be too hard to get those in my pockets out if I had to, I think, and might have helped me stay horizontal?

When taking photos, I found it easier to be a bit tilted 'heads down', to have more space to move while being sure not to kick anything, is there anything wrong with this?

How do you get better at navigation if you have to follow a DM around?

Sorry if any of these questions seem silly

Lisa, no question is silly except the one you never ask. Ask away.

I always have droppable weight, just not all of it. I have maybe 24 lb all up if in 6.5mm wetsuit, 6 lb in each BCD quick dump pocket, 3 in each BCD back pocket non dumpable, 6 lb in a weight belt. I do this so I can drop 6 lb to become buoyant but not excessively, if that doesn't work then drop a side pocket or two. Controllable ascent via selectable weight dropping over dropping the lot and shooting to the surface.

Navigation, well I find the best way is to find a dive buddy you trust and ask them to help. Let you do some navigation with the understanding they will help if you are stuck. No embarrassment and you get to see what you know and don't know with the confidence they can help and find your way back.

Loss of control on ascent, well first they should flare their fins and arms, that slows them down. You could try and grab them and dump air and slow them, but the risk here is you go up with them. No use both being bent so much care must be taken if you decide to do this (assuming a blue water ascent here).

My wife and I got caught in a side/down current in Bali. We both had to hold onto coral to stop being drawn down. We made sure the other had a good hold on the next bit of coral before moving up. Ensured we were both close enough that if one lost traction they could grab the other and be stable.

 

[TSandM]

Lisa, John Kendall is right -- the only way to get really good at diving is to dive. The idea of checking into a university dive club is an excellent one. GUE doesn't exclude people who can't dive regularly, but the classes can be difficult to pass if you are not in practice. However, the GUE Primer is not a pass-fail class, but just a workshop to improve skills. GUE does require a certain number of dives over a three year period to maintain your certification, if you do a class that gets you a card, which I actually think is great, because if someone isn't getting in eight dives a year, they aren't diving very much at all.

As far as weight goes, if you are using three 1 kg weights, it wouldn't be bad at all to put one of them on your tank, to help you balance in a horizontal position, if that is necessary. That would still leave you 2 weights you could drop in an emergency. I think new divers ought to have weight they can discard (or that someone can get off them easily), because new divers are the ones most likely to end up on the surface in difficulties.

What can you do when your buddy is losing buoyancy control? Well, if the buddy is ascending, you may be able to reach him, get as negative as you can, slow his ascent, and reach one of the dump valves on his BC and vent for him. This is the sort of thing I have to do quite frequently when helping with OW classes. It takes a fair amount of situational awareness to do this, and the ability to move rapidly in the water column while managing one's own buoyancy. It's better if you can spot the problem early, get the diver's attention, and motion to your inflator to remind him to dump for himself, but a person who isn't noticing he's going up may not be paying much attention to signals, either. Going down is somewhat more problematic, because if the person is below you, he can't see you, so you can't really communicate with him very easily, and it's harder to reach his inflator (the only way to ADD gas to a BC) than it is to reach a shoulder or butt dump. Really, it's best to try to stop the problem before it's very large -- and someone with buoyancy control that bad should be diving a shallow site with a defined bottom, so they can only sink so far . . .

You really can't help someone who is having trouble swimming in current -- but I'd have to ask why the guide is swimming the group into the current, anyway? If the person appears to be becoming exhausted or frantic, you can swim to them and motion for them to grab a rock or something and stop and rest. But then they shouldn't go back to trying something they've already shown they are not capable of doing.

If you are diving in a wetsuit, you can assume any position in the water that pleases you. Going head down is often a very nice way to get close to something to look at it, while keeping your fins out of the reef. I've done somersaults off the edge of a wall -- that's fun, too! A horizontal position is the most efficient for swimming, but there is no law that you must remain horizontal all the time you are diving. The water gives you freedom in three dimensions, and it's fun to make use of that. (Dry suits make some of this a little more difficult, though!)

Navigation is something that takes practice. If you are always following a guide, it's easy to get lazy and just let him do it. But you can practice for yourself -- when you descend, note the depth of the anchor and take note of the structures around it. Use your compass to check what course the guide sets off on. Build a picture in your mind of the direction you have gone, and the depth profile you've swum. Try to determine when the guide has turned around (if you are doing an anchored boat dive, and coming back to where you started). See if you can predict when the anchor will come into view.

On drift dives, the navigation is often VERY simple -- drop in, acquire the reef, and drift along it with the current. Nobody's doing a whole lot of navigating on those dives!

The dolphin kick is a powerful kick, but it uses a LOT of muscles. The more muscle effort you use on scuba, the faster you will go through your gas. This is why good divers rarely plan a dive where they will have to swim INTO current. If you encounter current that you can't move against with a nice flutter kick, you should be asking yourself if you really need to go in that direction. If you do, then when the dive is over, think about how you ended up in that situation. For example, in Puget Sound, it is possible to mistime a dive and end up in the water when the current comes up -- but in that case, one should look carefully at how the timing for the dive was determined, and whether an error is made. Divers are big and bulky objects in the water. It takes a lot of work to move against where the sea wants you to go, and most of the time, doing that should be avoided.

 

[Madacub]

Hi Lisa, from your post # 15:

"In fact, it should be the other way round, given that he can't keep up if there's current or surge, and tends to thud to the bottom/shoot up at descents and ascents."

and your post # 25:

"If your buddy is ascending/descending too fast (despite emptying their bc), is there anything you can/should do?"

I suspect your dad/buddy is not properly weighted. Probably over weighted. In theory, one might think, "Okay, I'm over weighted, so I'll just keep more air in my BCD to compensate and all will be fine". In practice, I think what happens is exactly what you describe above. Perhaps it isn't logical, but it's what happens, unless you are pretty experienced. I think the best thing you can do for him is to have a close look at the weight he is using.

When he stops bouncing about like that, he will relax and enjoy himself more and use less air. (And you'll stress less!) From there it is just one more step to attaining really good buoyancy.

One other point: Several replies have mentioned getting your own gear (used and inspected, if that's all your budget allows). I found this made a big difference to me. You may not know that different BCDs have different inherent buoyancies. Plus they may fit differently. Plus a medium may fit you at one shop and a small at another - just more hassles. Same thing for wetsuits - with constant usage, wetsuits lose some buoyancy as well as thermal protection. Some fins can be pretty heavy as well....

So: What gear to buy? Start another thread!!! And yes, get your parents to pay - that's what they're there for.

Hope this helps. (I haven't heard of FFESSM, but I've met several CMAS divers. I'm pretty sure a good instructor is more important than the agency)