AOW, but I don't think I'm any good- how to improve?

[Storker]

I just got the AOW, but I really don't think I'm much good. I've done about... 50 dives? In 4 years. I haven't planned a dive, or anything, and just follow the DM around (in warm, clear water).

I think this is your main problem.

But I'm 17, and can only go diving with my dad, who is perfectly happy being a 'resort diver'. Is there anything I could do to improve? A course, lessons?

Having my dad as a buddy is a problem for me. He has bad trim and buoyancy, is 67, can't keep up in a current or thermocline/cold water, and uses so much air. He finishes with at least 50 bar less than me (And I'm typically all over the place/twisting around/a few meters deeper than him/taking photos/swimming back and forth to check with him).

And this could be a major reason for your problem.

I'm sort of at the other end of the table from you, I certified both OW and AOW last year and dive mostly with my 17 year old son. However, I'm firmly in the "self-reliant diver" camp, and ever since our first post-cert dive I've insisted that we dive as a buddy pair, planning our dives together, working on buddy skills and dive skills almost every dive. I guess the big practical difference from your situation is that most of our dives are local, either just the two of us - preferably with someone waiting at the surface - or with friends. We're also members of the local club, and we get the chance to dive with other people as well, giving some perspective on our own behavior and skills.

In fact, I found out this summer that I didn't much care for the dive resort "follow the guide, trust the guide" approach to diving, I definitely prefer diving just as a buddy pair even if we're a bunch of people on the outing. That's in fact the way our club outings are done: Our divemaster of the day is only responsible for the site briefing and keeping track of who's entering and exiting the water at what time. Planning and execution of the dive is totally up to each buddy pair.

And I'm nowhere near water Which is sad because I love it.

Ach. My initial thoughts was "dive more, dive regularly, and focus on improving your skills". Since you don't live close to water, that's going to be challenge. If I were in your situation, I'd really try to be able to afford my own gear - as you've already remarked, you don't get familiar with the equipment if you're only diving in different rental gears.

But I'm convinced that what you need isn't necessarily another course. What you need is more regular diving. A mentor would be great, but constant awareness and focus on developing your skills is also very good. That awareness and focus is our main tool for constantly improving our diving, not the courses. There are some videos on Youtube showing what can be done, and - perhaps not surprisingly - those videos are often titled "DIR something". I like watching them to see how technically good divers are doing things. After every dive we evaluate the dive and discuss what we could have done better. So far, there hasn't been a single dive where we didn't find something to improve upon. And I had a chance to compare my son's skills and style to some "experienced" resort divers this summer. Frankly, I believe my son - with less than thirty logged dives - dived a lot better than some of those "experienced" divers...

And also, in the meantime, is there any website when I can learn about dive planning? I'm concerned that without the dive computer/DM, I'd be lost :/

Rec dive planning ain't rocket science. I - or my son, we take turns in planning the dive - usually plan max depth & max time (estimated from the table), turnaround time and pressure, and the direction of the dive. I usually prefer a profile that goes fairly quickly to max depth and then gradually shallower. For shore dives or dives close to the shore, we try to keep at one depth on our way out and a shallower depth on our way back. It's quite simple

 

[fjpatrum]

Don't dive with your dad! That's really the only piece of advice I have. Parents instinctively want to "take care" of their children. Children instinctively allow their parents to "do all the work". Someone said get a mentor and I agree entirely. Separate your diving from your dad for a while and you'll find your comfort and confidence in yourself will dramatically increase.

Also, talk to your dad about your concerns. Parents are generally much more receptive to adult conversations with their children than the children expect. Besides, you're almost an adult. Take responsibility for yourself (as you seem to be doing) and tell your dad what it is you want/need in order to feel like a safe and capable diver.

 

[Edward3c]

I just got the AOW, but I really don't think I'm much good. I've done about... 50 dives? In 4 years. I haven't planned a dive, or anything, and just follow the DM around (in warm, clear water).


The AOW, for me, was kind of useless. I did it because I was told I wouldn't be allowed to do night dives/more than 18m/drift diving/ect without it. But I didn't learn anything. The nav dive was a joke, we just had to swim a 10 kick cycle long triangle and square in perfect visibility, to pass. Deep dive? Just follow the instructor and your computer, you don't need to know anything about the theory or tables or whatever. Fish ID? That's a clown fish! Do a dive at 7pm, and take a few snapshots underwater, and you're done.


I did the OW when I was 13, and now don't remember much about what was taught (like the theory and stuff) especially because the place I took the OW didn't have the book in english, so everything was orally translated, and very vague. Dive tables are a distant memory. I've started keeping a logbook, but didn't have one for my first 40 or so dives
I think my buyoncy is kind of OK, but I can only compare myself to other 'resort divers' so it's probably not. I can control where I go with my breathing, and challenged myself to not take my hands off the camera on my last dive, and managed. But I can't stay vertical on the safety stops. And how do you improve your trim with rented gear?


I want to get better. I'd love to get the kind of control I saw on some technical diving youtube videos. Maybe get good at underwater photography. Maybe, in the very distant future, cave diving or solo diving?


But I'm 17, and can only go diving with my dad, who is perfectly happy being a 'resort diver'. Is there anything I could do to improve? A course, lessons? The resort that gave me de AOW suggested getting the 'rescue diving' because it was 'fun'. Given their version of the AOW, I wonder if I'd learn anything. I'm just not sure what to do!

Unfortunately, living in France poses special problems because of local laws.

I'm not surprised the manual wasn't in English, the French require everything to be in French (very anti English)

 

[Jim Lapenta]

We were just discussing that a couple weeks ago, my Sidemount instructor is a Brit. Living in Canada now but his mum still lives in the UK. Some of you in the UK don't think much of the French I gather as well. Perfectly understandable but definitely a two way street on the anti thing.

 

[lisa1234]

No, actually, I got the OW and AOW in Asia. I'm part-French, and speak it fluently, so that wouldn't have been a problem

fjpartrum, he doesn't take care of me, and doesn't do all the work. In fact, he doesn't do anything for me. He isn't a particularly good swimmer, plus he ascends halfway through the dive anyways. So I just stay with the DM in the end (the DM suggested this, or I'd never get to see anything)
In fact, it should be the other way round, given that he can't keep up if there's current or surge, and tends to thud to the bottom/shoot up at descents and ascents. But what can I even do then? I mean, I don't see what I can do to help him as a buddy, in those scenarios. (Any suggestions? Say he can't cross a 30m stretch of strong current, that I can swim across without too much effort. What can I do?)

I'd rather be self-reliant, if possible :/

And given that we only dive on holidays, the other option is insta-buddies, who tend to be older guys I'm not comfortable with. I'm a 17 y old girl, and I don't care how my wetsuit+BC fits, it's not an excuse! Even my dad is a better option than that. I've had unpleasant experiences ><
(Tip to guys on resort dives- don't assume that someone doesn't understand a specific language based on their appearance. If you are going to make rude comments, check first that that caucasian-looking girl in front of you is not multicultural and multilingual.)

(I guess that's why I think a course would be a good idea)

As for comfort, I'm comfortable in water- without scuba gear. I just feel like I'm fighting it all the time.
I just checked some videos from those dives- yep, I don't bump into anything or cause silt, but I can tilt up to 30 degree angle, and I'm constantly clearing my mask (it had a leak), trying to adjust my weight belt, and keep my too big and quite heavy fins from chaffing. And I need to remember to keep my legs bent.
If I stop moving, like was suggested somewhere, and just let go, I'd probably naturally float at a 45degree angle. So it's a struggle to stay either vertical or horizontal. I wish I could fasten my weight belt around my ribs :s

 

[toddthecat]

Don't dive with your dad! That's really the only piece of advice I have. Parents instinctively want to "take care" of their children. Children instinctively allow their parents to "do all the work". Someone said get a mentor and I agree entirely.

Agree with the mentor thing...but...the whole don't dive with your dad thing? Jeez. That's harsh.

---------- Post added July 24th, 2013 at 10:22 PM ----------

I don't think PADI has an all inclusive book like this since they do their MD course as separate specialties rather and an all-in-one course (I could be wrong).

PADI AOW book touches on each specialty. It's basically the first knowledge review of each one. Is that similar to the NAUI book you speak of? If the NAUI book is all the content of every specialty it must be quite large...

 

[Mantra]

If I may defend the French on the language front a little, I think it's very understandable that they (and the Russians) have great pride in the beauty of their language and literature and want to be protective of it. I've never heard any one more passionate about the semicolon than a beautiful French Novelist I once knew. It was quite the quality!

Anyway, Lisa1234: being far from the water will be a challenge for you. But even regular practice in a deep pool can keep your buoyancy and trim skills sharp. As for equipment: buying a good mask that fits should be a priority for you so you don't have to keep clearing it all the time, and this is a simple thing to travel with. Your own fins that suit the type of diving you want to do might be a good investment.

 

[bergersau]

Lisa - buy your own gear if you can. Good condition second hand gear is fine, just make sure Regs, tank, gauges and BCD are serviced by a professional before you use them. Make sure that anything you buy fits you properly.
Once you have your own gear you no longer have to deal with random gear every dive and the associated changes in fit, buoyancy characteristics, placement etc. Then you'll start to feel more in control and not have fight with your gear as much. Consistency does help with feeling comfortable underwater.

Keep a log with notes on your exposure protection how much lead AND where it is distributed. Note how your trim feels each dive. You should start to see patterns quickly and will soon start getting your trim under control. If you want, do a Peak Performance Buoyancy course or GUE Fundimentals. Both will help with your trim.

Perhaps find a mentor or a dive club (Better yet a Not For Profit club) to help you along.

 

[g1138]

PADI AOW book touches on each specialty. It's basically the first knowledge review of each one. Is that similar to the NAUI book you speak of? If the NAUI book is all the content of every specialty it must be quite large...

I'll have to dig my S&P book out of my moving boxes. I can post the exact baseline standards if you're interested.

But no, NAUI's MD book is based on knowledge content ranging from physics, physiology, and environment and a few others. It's 290 pages from what I can find on the web. I remember that being about right; I'll have to find my book to in those boxes.
They have a dedicated stand alone class and don't conduct it the same way PADI does. Rather than obtaining specialties to qualify for the distinction certification, you take a standalone NAUI class for the MD cert.
There's class & pool sessions and skill and knowledge tests (ocean & classroom).

It covers what the OP is asking. Planning a dive, thinking about site, ocean conditions, planning based on your weakest/most in-experienced teammate, going into the dive itself, accident management, etc etc.
The Instructor course's pre-qual test is based on the MD test in fact.

The test is based on the book, and covers your basic OW test questions, plus more indepth, plus math questions. What I remember from mine, Examples include:
- Planning multi-dives from tables
ie. SI's required given Dives 1, 2 & 3 for the day
Safe Dive plan for Dive #2 given Dive 1 & 3 with known SI's.

- Amount of lead required to neutral out an object given: water (salt or fresh is made known), object dimensions, object mass
ie you have to calculate water displacement to start off
Densities of Fresh and Salt water either have to be memorized or the instructor can provide it, be open note etc etc. Just depends on the instructor

- Amount of air available to a diver to conduct descent and dive, if given: 500psi reserve, air plan for ascent, SAC rate, tank capacity, Depth & time plan.

- Number of lift bags required to raise an item if given: water (salt or fresh), bag capacity, items mass, items dimensions.
OR volume of air needed if given relevant info, like above plus # lift bags to be used

- Given symptoms identify likely lung/skin barotrauma DCS out of 4 choices

- List First Aid for poison sting
or textbook course of action for heading a Dive emergency as the First Responder/Accident Manager


These are all multiple choice out of a Test bank Book from NAUI. I was lucky to be able to take the test 3 times for different classes in my university's program, so I got to know the test real well. =.=*

 

[johnkendall]

I just got the AOW, but I really don't think I'm much good. I've done about... 50 dives? In 4 years. I haven't planned a dive, or anything, and just follow the DM around (in warm, clear water).


The AOW, for me, was kind of useless. I did it because I was told I wouldn't be allowed to do night dives/more than 18m/drift diving/ect without it. But I didn't learn anything. The nav dive was a joke, we just had to swim a 10 kick cycle long triangle and square in perfect visibility, to pass. Deep dive? Just follow the instructor and your computer, you don't need to know anything about the theory or tables or whatever. Fish ID? That's a clown fish! Do a dive at 7pm, and take a few snapshots underwater, and you're done.


I did the OW when I was 13, and now don't remember much about what was taught (like the theory and stuff) especially because the place I took the OW didn't have the book in english, so everything was orally translated, and very vague. Dive tables are a distant memory. I've started keeping a logbook, but didn't have one for my first 40 or so dives
I think my buyoncy is kind of OK, but I can only compare myself to other 'resort divers' so it's probably not. I can control where I go with my breathing, and challenged myself to not take my hands off the camera on my last dive, and managed. But I can't stay vertical on the safety stops. And how do you improve your trim with rented gear?


I want to get better. I'd love to get the kind of control I saw on some technical diving youtube videos. Maybe get good at underwater photography. Maybe, in the very distant future, cave diving or solo diving?


But I'm 17, and can only go diving with my dad, who is perfectly happy being a 'resort diver'. Is there anything I could do to improve? A course, lessons? The resort that gave me de AOW suggested getting the 'rescue diving' because it was 'fun'. Given their version of the AOW, I wonder if I'd learn anything. I'm just not sure what to do!

Hi Lisa,

I don't know if this is of any use to you, but there is a GUE Fundamentals class being run in french in september. https://www.facebook.com/events/358629814263317/

HTH
John