AOW Disappointment

[SteveDiver]

PADI does not have a AOW course. They have a program called Adventures in Diving, which is a selection of individual experience dives. If you complete the Deep, Nav, and any three other Dives, you get the AOW certification. How a individual instructor or shop turns this into a course is up to them, as is them calling it an Advanced Course.

My AOW is through NAUI however I have a question for you- If it is the Instructor that is calling the course AOW why is it that PADI offers AOW c-cards if indeed they do not have an AOW course?.

 

[Walter]

PADI does not have a AOW course. They have a program called Adventures in Diving, which is a selection of individual experience dives. If you complete the Deep, Nav, and any three other Dives, you get the AOW certification. How a individual instructor or shop turns this into a course is up to them, as is them calling it an Advanced Course.

A rose by any other name. Take a course, get an AOW card, it's an AOW course even if PADI calls it Adventures in Diving. When they start issuing cards that say, "Adventures in Diving" instead of "Advanced," it'll be an Adventures in Diving course. Since it is in no way an advanced course, it's misleading. That is true of all the AOW courses, not just PADI's.

What abotu Steve R's comments?

If he'd made the statement, "most agencies (Padi anyway) doesn't give a rats-behind about their own standards really," without supporting it with, "I've been giving them (Padi) point blank, cut and dried and current examples of this sort of thing for a long time now, and if there's one thing I know for sure, they don't care, as long as the cash is rolling in.

When they can't argue that in fact you are correct in your assesement, they'll toss the mother of all "go away we've looked at it" excuses and tell you that the investigation has been done, and they are not at liberty to tell anyone anything more than that," I would agree with you. Since he supported his opinion with facts, it's not bashing.

 

[jviehe]

My AOW is through NAUI however I have a question for you- If it is the Instructor that is calling the course AOW why is it that PADI offers AOW c-cards if indeed they do not have an AOW course?.

It used to be called Advanced Open Water course. Much like the master diver certification, the AOW certification is a recognition card, not a course card. There is no course outline, or structure requirements. Again, how its marketed is up to the dive shop. AiD is designed to allow students to pick supervised experienced dives, that may nor may not result in the AOW cert. For example, in resort areas, people may only do the underwater photo AiD training dive. This would not be an AOW course, but an Adventure Dive.

 

[jviehe]

A rose by any other name. Take a course, get an AOW card, it's an AOW course even if PADI calls it Adventures in Diving. When they start issuing cards that say, "Adventures in Diving" instead of "Advanced," it'll be an Adventures in Diving course. Since it is in no way an advanced course, it's misleading. That is true of all the AOW courses, not just PADI's.

Im simply explaining that calling it a AOW course is the dive shop, not PADI. As such, how a shop runs that course is up to them, and not PADI. They could require a night dive for example, which is not a requirement by PADI to achieve the AOW certification. Would it then be right to critique PADI for a shop requiring the night dive as part of its AOW course? No, because that is not a PADI requirement. Just simply seperate the terms course and certification, as they mean different things. Courses may or may not end with a certification, and may vary per instructor.

 

[SteveDiver]

It used to be called Advanced Open Water course. Much like the master diver certification, the AOW certification is a recognition card, not a course card. There is no course outline, or structure requirements. Again, how its marketed is up to the dive shop. AiD is designed to allow students to pick supervised experienced dives, that may nor may not result in the AOW cert. For example, in resort areas, people may only do the underwater photo AiD training dive. This would not be an AOW course, but an Adventure Dive.

Thanks for the answer, I guess things have changed since I have been certified. I am still somewhat confused as to why PADI or any other agency for that matter would offer an AOW card without having a set criteria for obtaining the card.

 

[jviehe]

Thanks for the answer, I guess things have changed since I have been certified. I am still somewhat confused as to why PADI or any other agency for that matter would offer an AOW card without having a set criteria for obtaining the card.

Again, there IS criteria, but its like saying you have to be 18. Age is not taught as part of a course. How you meet that criteria is up to the dive center or instructor. Essentially there is no outline or formal structure, only the requirement that you do 5 training dives. Those individual dives have their own structure. Even PADI hasnt changed their website to reflect the new philosophy.

 

[Steve R]

A rose by any other name. Take a course, get an AOW card, it's an AOW course even if PADI calls it Adventures in Diving. When they start issuing cards that say, "Adventures in Diving" instead of "Advanced," it'll be an Adventures in Diving course. Since it is in no way an advanced course, it's misleading. That is true of all the AOW courses, not just PADI's.

You have that right, my friend. When they have nothing else, all they can do is argue semantics.

I guess my Padi Advanced Plus card is a figment of my imagination too

This is like shooting fish in a barrel. There's just no sport in it.

What little criteria there is isn't even being met. I've seen most do not give any class time, (hey it's not required right!) and I've seen classes where the KR's aren't even handed in (let alone done).

Yes Padi knows that too. What's my point? lol. Gee I don't know. I can read the standards and know they're not being followed, and Padi knows about it and does nothing.

So what you end up getting usually, is 5 poorly guided dives and no knowledge out of it whatsoever. Oh that's right, it's not their intent to teach you anything here.

That's fine if it's not costing you anything but lunch and a beer, but for the amount of money AOW's are going for, it's a complete rip-off.

Drop down to the bottom, sit there, do a math question, or stick a key in a lock for time.........lol. What a crying shame. A complete disgrace, and the same story is a weekly occurance here on scuby-board.

My guess is the system is working exactly as it's been planned. milk milk

EDIT: And for the record there JV, these are facts. I'll gladly post the Store's name and Instructors name, right here, on this thread, but it seems to me this still wouldn't make you happy enough as I understand the position you're in right now, which is at the south end of a horse heading north.

(Ya may need a Nav course to figure it out though........$69.99 plus cert card and I'll even show ya how to extricate yourself)

 

[Divedoggie]

I'm going to have to play devil's advocate and agree that the PADI AOW is not really a course, and it doesn't make a noobie into an "advanced diver." :light:

But here we have to ask what is the difference between an open water diver, an advanced recreational diver and an expert recreational diver?

Advanced, infers that the diver is accomplished, maybe an expert.
A diver that has only the minumum standards for AOW, is not accomplished, and therefore not Advanced as the word infers.:shakehead

Advanced does not mean expert.:shakehead

Advanced also infers that the diver has moved or advanced, beyond the entry level standards.

My wife is AOW. She is certainly much more advanced now then she was as an OW diver. Technically, she is rock solid. Perfect buoyancy control, really nicely horizontal and streamlined, has mastered a few finning techniques. Knows her SAC and plans her dives well, dives her plans. Has rehearsed emergency proceedures. Very conservative, and a great buddy.

Is she "advanced?" To some people yes, others would say she's intermediate. She is an accomplished and safe diver. If she were a Rescue Diver, then I would say that she was "Advanced."

Who would sign up for an Intermediate Diver Course?
People will sign up for an Advanced course. The course is what it is.:11:
The cover of the book says, "Adventures in Diving."

Other people claim that their agency requires x number of dives to be AOW. That doesn't cut the mustard either. I know plenty of people with over a hundred logged dives, who still don't really know anything much about diving!:11doh:

So, why not accept that the terminology is exaggerated, and AOW isn't really all that advanced, and move on.

AOW does advance a noobie by giving them more experience and enlightening them to the possibilities of becoming truly advanced through continued education and more diving in different environments, with different tasks.

It is a progressive step toward continuing to be an active diver. The statistics for diver drop out after Open Water are staggering. If a course can pique some interest, and keep new divers diving, it is good for the entire industry, and most importantly its good for the person who continues to dive.

Therefore, I believe that it is a worthwhile pursuit, and its FUN! I encourage my students to pursue it with clear conscience.

Rescue training, specialties, and getting dives under one's belt with good role models will create truly advanced and eventually expert recreational divers.

Summing it up, our original poster should have felt really good after completing AOW, and not feel ripped off.
If I offer a really good class, and the students learned and enjoyed themselves, I don't credit the agency.
Likewise, if they had a bad time, and got nothing out of the course, I don't blame the agency.

Our friend should get his money back from the offending dive op and instructor.

 

[Steve R]

If everyone is in agreeance that it's not really "advanced" and teaches you nothing then why do:

1 - agencies put "Advanced" that on their card, if it's not?
2 - charters ops require it on most dives? - Why would they, it's doesn't teach you anything
3 - why would anyone pay anything for what it really is? (Because of point 2, which means you're screwed)
4 - why, if this is in fact wide-spread shop driven mis-information, wouldn't agency's set these shops and instructors straight and make a bold (public) statement to the divers being duped, and inform them what the real deal is?

Can anyone say Pyramid scheme?

 

[Divedoggie]

Steve,

I see on your website that you offer Advanced Open Water.

(BTW Seriously, your Op looks really cool.)

Do you really feel that people are "duped, screwed, and aren't taught anything?"