AOW Dive Expiration

[Bob DBF]

Adventure dives by definition are INTRODUCTORY experiences, and your requirement for using pony bottles isn't even part of the required knowledge base. In fact, I think you do a disservice by even teaching what is a skill beyond the scope of this dive to these divers since the focus is to teach a diver how to experience diving withing the deep parameters of their recreational diving world (18-40meters)... why would you want to introduce higher level task and skills that 'enable' a diver to purposefully exceed recreational limits? (surely you can't be so naive to believe that by teaching such skills, that some divers would not then be tempted to do dives beyond recreational limits just because 'they know how').

Divers are always tempted to dive beyond recreational limits. Personally, I believe that giving the diver the skills, practice and information needed to make good decisions is a better solution than the "dive in conditions that you were trained in" which is usually 20' of clear water. OW has turned, for the most part, into a joke and that is what I think is the basis of disregarding the good information given there.

...or in my case knot tying game is to demonstrate to the student the effects of deep water on their mental accuity... loss of dexterity

This was the foolish part of the deep dive. Tying a knot on land and comparing times to tying it in a 100' of water is funny because if you had them tie it in 20' of water it would probably take almost the same time, the rope reacts differently underwater. I had a minimal time difference because I tie knots underwater on a regular basis, others took forever because of inexperience more than narcosis.



Bob
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That's my point, people, by and large, are not taught that diving can be deadly, they are taught how safe it is, and they are not equipped with the skills, taught and trained to the level required to be useful in an emergency.

 

[boulderjohn]

The idea of comparing the time it takes to perform a task on land with the time it takes to complete it under water has been dropped from most agency requirements, largely because it was counterproductive. At the depths required for AOW, there is not really all that much impairment to begin with. Narcosis is also hard to predict--it can be severe on one dive and next to nothing at the same depth on another. Add to that the fact that the student got to practice the skill while being timed on the surface, and you have a scenario in which the student often did better at depth than on the surface. This taught the students that the warnings on narcosis were overblown, which is the opposite of the intention. I think a really good discussion about the different effects of narcosis and the attendant danger is more effective.

 

[Zen1300]

As an update to this thread, I did complete the AOW this weekend.

The deep dive was a simple dive along a line down to 63'. We were at that depth for about a minute. The rest of the dive was a typical multilevel with a 3-minute safety stop. It was a very dark and cold lake with about 3' visibility. I envy those that get to go a little deeper in nicer conditions.

I feel like I checked the box on this one, but that's about it.

 

[VicScubaVentures]

@ Zen1300 --

Wow. 63'. I think you got the smelly end of the training stick with that "deep" dive. A case of either the shop and/or the instructor doing the minimum required to certify a student. PADI Standards call a deep dive anything between 60 and 100', but there's a world of real world differece between 63' and anything nearing 100'. I'd be concerned that you don't have a real appreciation for the feeling of narcosis, and _more importantly, IMHO_ you don't have an understanding of how quickly you breathe down a tank at 100' vs 63'. Sorry that you didn't get what you probably thought you'd paid for.

C.

 

[Zen1300]

@ Zen1300 --

Wow. 63'. I think you got the smelly end of the training stick with that "deep" dive. A case of either the shop and/or the instructor doing the minimum required to certify a student. PADI Standards call a deep dive anything between 60 and 100', but there's a world of real world differece between 63' and anything nearing 100'. I'd be concerned that you don't have a real appreciation for the feeling of narcosis, and _more importantly, IMHO_ you don't have an understanding of how quickly you breathe down a tank at 100' vs 63'. Sorry that you didn't get what you probably thought you'd paid for.

C.

One of the problems is that there isn't any blue diving inland, it was pitch black and vis was 3'. Even with lights it was difficult to see each other. I would have preferred to go deeper - to about 80', but I suspect with the visibility and the cold, I suspect it would become a safety issue to have done that even with a 1:2 ratio. It was explained to us that we likely wouldn't experience being narc'd at this depth.

I understand the theory, and got a feeling for it, but you're correct, there was much more to the learning experience.

I'm a cautious diver and know my limitations. I honestly don't get a lot of time to go diving and when I do, it is always the local quarry. I cannot wait to get out to some blue water and see some great viz.

 

[Roatan Joe]

Zen, where did you do your AOW Deep dive?

 

[Zen1300]

Zen, where did you do your AOW Deep dive?

It was at Mansfield Dam in Lake Travis, Austin area.

 

[Roatan Joe]

It was at Mansfield Dam in Lake Travis, Austin area.

Okay never tried that location. It sounds like your AOW Deep dive was right in line with how AOW deep dives work around here. I don't think you got the smelly end of anything and don't really think it's in good taste for someone up in Canada who has no idea of how things work down here to speak negatively about your training. I feel certain your instructor thoroughly explained how air consumption goes up as you descend deeper and I see little reason to have students suck down a tank at depth in order to get the point across. Additionally, taking an AOW student down for the purposes of experiencing narcosis is not a part of the PADI AOW course. I don't know of any instructors around here that take AOW students to depths much deeper than 60 ft. and they certainly don't stay down there any longer than absolutely necessary to complete the performance requirements. I'm assuming you weren't diving in a drysuit!

 

[Zen1300]

I think it is on par for the course around here. I understand the comment, however. Ideally you would want to spend a little more time there to get the feel for it. On the bright side (or the dark side) the experience of 63' in pitch black cold is completely different than 80' blue with 100' vis.

I've slowly learned to adjust my expectations of training to more align with my environment and the goal of giving me the basic skills to go forth and learn more. How I learn is up to me. If I'm unsure about something I can get more time with an instructor. Many shops will let you dive with their classes if space permits, I'm slowly meeting people who dive that have more experience.

My biggest hurdle now is time to dive - short season, single dad with limited weekends to get out and do it. I'm working it in a little more now.

The bottom line - when I do it, I enjoy it.

 

[Roatan Joe]

Well if you want more deep experience for fun, I'm going to Wheeler Branch to do three Deep Specialty dives for a student probably next week. Come along for fun if you want. I personally don't get any enjoyment out of going deep in the dark cold muck around here. It's just a necessary evil for training purposes. Shoot me a PM if you want more details about when and where to meet. Go buy a hood if you don't have one!