AOW/Rescue Diver Not Respected

[Neilwood]

I can completely understand operators requiring checkout dives in whatever guise they happen to be. Personally I would take it as read that at least one dive on any trip with a new operator will be a checkout even if not named as such.

You could have a diver that has just finished OW with better skills that an instructor with 100's of dives. How? The instructor maybe hasn't been in the water for months, did his teaching using overweighted students on their knees for skills etc whereas the OW student might have had the best instructor who insisted of full mastery of everything.

As someone above said, skills are a practical thing and if not practised can get rusty pretty damn quick. The only proof that a DM has of skill is by seeing it in the water with their own eyes. They can then do a risk assessment of who can dive with minimal supervision and who is a FIGJAM and needs an eye kept on them just in case.

 

[Nianne]

Even with RD, people will wanna know how you dive and what you're confortable doing before taking you to a difficult dive.

Some level 2 or 3 that dives only in lake or gravel quarry can be stresses by a boat dive or a lot a currents.
Goes the other way, if you only dive with a boat and a good vis your first dive in a lake will be a little stressfull.

I prefer to do my firsts dives in a new place with a DM to do a discovery.

 

[Nianne]

[QUOTE="DustyC, post: 7822575, member: 468283" I've seen people go from rescue to master IN ONE DAY. That fosters a distrust of the entire system.

LOL
If that rescue diver already has 5 specialty certifications it only takes as long as it takes to fill out the application and hand over your credit card to become a master diver.
I have dove with rescue divers with logbooks full of specialty cards who have more than enough to get the master diver rating but don't bother doing it.[/QUOTE]


MD is a income of money for PADI and why MSDT exists !
The red card is cute though

 

[RandomGuy1]

As someone above said, skills are a practical thing and if not practised can get rusty pretty damn quick. The only proof that a DM has of skill is by seeing it in the water with their own eyes. They can then do a risk assessment of who can dive with minimal supervision and who is a FIGJAM and needs an eye kept on them just in case.

Had to google what a FIGJAM is. Going to have to start using that.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Had to google what a FIGJAM is. Going to have to start using that.

For those wondering like I was Urban Dictionary: FIGJAM

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into a PADI vs GUE debate. I've known exceptional PADI-trained divers, and I've even met one guy who was a pretty poor diver despite having a GUE card (though that one was surprising). I think it's fantastic that you've chosen to uphold a high standard and take the time to help your students reach it.

The card itself cannot tell a dive op that, though. It simply says that at one time, a diver was able to meet the bare minimum standard required to check off a skill. It doesn't say that you can do it well, nor that you can do it in a stressful situation, nor even that you can still do it at all.

I didn't really take it as such. DevonDiver once responded to a thread in the instructor-to-instructor forum with a pyramid describing the agency types to the volume of students and the level of investment by the student.

GUE is at the top of the pyramid, as they have stringent standards, students are highly committed, but are relatively few. Standards for a smaller set of instructors is logistically easier.

PADI has a strong discover scuba diving that focuses on the part of the market that is just looking for an experience. To many of these people, scuba diving is a check box that they wish to complete before going onto the next activity. With PADI, you can go as far as you want. There are some incredible PADI instructors who are hardasses that enforce mastery of a skill. I try to follow that example. But there are sufficient numbers of instructors who are lazy and/or want/need that cert, need in terms of income. So we all know what the result of that is.

 

[elgoog]

I've never been on a liveaboard outside California (and those are completely self service, no DM and no check anything) so don't have much context on what the "checkout" dives entail. Are they really that undesirable? Even if you spent a jillion dollars to go to an exotic location, I would imagine even the baby dive would also have a ton of stuff to see and would generally be a good dive. Am I wrong? Genuinely curious ...

The closest I've come to this was in Cozumel a few months back. When we checked in with the op, they asked us if we've dived in Cozumel before (we hadn't) and the first day, we were put on a boat with another couple, one of whom had just finished OW. They gave us some tips on how to dive in the current, if we knew how much weight we needed (we did), how ascents would be done with an SMB and that was pretty much it. The sites we hit that day were Tormentos Reef and Palancar Gardens - I gather now that they are two of the easiest sites there but they were amazing dives nonetheless.

I've even met one guy who was a pretty poor diver despite having a GUE card (though that one was surprising)

You do know I read this forum, don't you?!?!?!

 

[sea_otter]

You do know I read this forum, don't you?!?!?!

Hah! He was not trained by Beto or anyone else in the local area.

 

[mainedvr]

I have been an AOW and Rescue Diver for several years now and, aside from the fact that I learned a lot, it seems that those ratings do not get the respect that I feel they deserve from many dive ops I have used in the past. Many dive ops will still require check out dives or even withhold going to certain spots until I have proven myself in their eyes. It seems to me that for many dive ops AOW and RD really mean nothing. Could this be because those shops use the classes more to generate revenue than they do to impart knowledge? Is it because these classes are basically "no fail" classes? Is there another reason that I am not aware of? Am I just choosing ops that are wrong for me? I am having a hard time understanding. Maybe I look unsafe and seem to need more attention LOL, though I don't think so. What are your thoughts?
RichH

I don't think your choosing the wrong op's actually I think if they are concerned for your safety and others they may be the op's you want. Just do a dive with a DM or whatever criteria they set out and show them your skilled. What would be worse in my eyes is an op that did not question this when needed and I needed a dive buddy and got paired up with someone that was not safe. So don't take it so personal, just take it for what it is and if it does not feel good to you find another op. You should shop for you Dive OP just like they are shopping you....

Have Fun

 

[kelemvor]

For those wondering like I was Urban Dictionary: FIGJAM

Huh, well I'll be. I thought @NetDoc made that one up!