Are dive computers making bad divers?

[CT-Rich]

Well, You guy's have some how changed this old school northeast wreck diver that has dived NAVY Tables since 1972 to buy a computer.. Just ordered 2 VEO 3.0 for the wife and myself.. Hope I don't get bent..

Jim

You must be sh*tting us, someone actually swayed by by a discussion on ScubaBoard? Sir you obviously did not dig your trench deep enough... We will expect better of you in the future. Let us know how you like it.

 

[DiveNav]

......... Just ordered 2 VEO 3.0 for the wife and myself.. Hope I don't get bent......

Make sure to learn how to properly use it.
If you register them with Oceanic, they will send you free activation codes for the Veo 3 online class

 

[The Chairman]

You must be sh*tting us, someone actually swayed by by a discussion on ScubaBoard?

Most the people who have changed their diving practices from discussions just like this aren't even registered users. The more reasonable and rational you are, the more you'll change the minds of those not participating in the thread. I write for the unencumbered reader, not the person I'm disagreeing with.

 

[FinnMom]

Which means to me that, for reasons of intelligence, confidence, dominant response to a challenge, general awareness, and sense of personal responsibility/self-reliance, extremely few average divers should be diving.

I mean, come on, when you look at the fact that a whole lot of people dove successfully before computers were available, and they weren't all rocket scientists and brain surgeons (some of them were janitors) you should be able to figure out that they put their pants on one leg at a time just like you and they didn't have an S on their chest. If you truly believe that what prior generations saw as not particularly daunting is superhuman, what does that say about the future of humanity?

You dropped the 1st half of my post and thereby quoted me out of context and completely changed the meaning of my text. As I read it, you and I agree but you read a bit fast and didn't realize that.

My point was that that many replies are making no-computer diving look like rocket science, so no wonder if Joe average or Joe beginner is reluctant believe no-computer diving is for guys like them.

This idea of being for geeks and experts only isn't any more accurate than the idea that I need a doctorate in automotive engineering to properly drive a car. Actually the tables are often much more simple and straight forward to use than the user interface of many entry-level priced computers. Unfortunately threads that look like a theoretical physics discussion are not going to win over many new converts.

 

[LowVizWiz]

Are dive computers making bad divers?

I think stupid people make bad divers.

That would be like blaming the hammer for hitting your thumb?

I recently had 5 students in a Nitrox class, all 5 had dive computers. All 5 bought the computers after their original certification online or from a dive shop. None of them knew how to plan or conduct a dive using the computer properly nor had they sought out instruction other than the manual or each other on how to use it. Who is at fault here?

Obviously that's just one case, but regardless of the situation the diver is ultimately responsible for conducting their dive.
You can blame the instructor, the agency, the computer manufacturer and on and on, but the only one ultimately affected is the diver and possibly the diver's friends and family.

 

[oldschoolto]

The real question is... Will I stop running NDL NAVY Tables in my head well diving ? And doing deco on the fly...

Jim

 

[The Chairman]

The real question is... Will I stop running NDL NAVY Tables in my head well diving ? And doing deco on the fly...

Given your user name, I bet I know the answer!

 

[Dive Right In Scuba.]

The real question is... Will I stop running NDL NAVY Tables in my head well diving ? And doing deco on the fly...

Jim

If you run the Navy tables in your head while doing a multi-level dive and then glance at your computer...

If you run Navy tables in your head for your surface interval and then use your computer's planning mode to see the limits of your next dive...

Then you will have a number of "Holy Cow!" moments before those old habits begin to fade away.

 

[markmud]

It is becoming more and more frequent that I find myself with divers who are extremely computer dependent. Since computers are becoming a dime a dozen, I am not sure if this is a bad thing. I asked one of the divers I was with if she was able to plan and conduct dives without a computer and she told me that she has over 200 dives but was never trained on tables.

How many of you guys do dives without computers? For those senior divers who have been diving since before the computer revolution, do you feel that the new generation has been idiotized by computers, or no.

Hi Captain Sinbad,

This has been an interesting thread--thanks for starting it!

Correlation does not imply causation. A correlation between two variables does not create an implication that one is causative of the other.

There are dependent divers who depend on their puter to "take care of them" just as a DM or buddy is supposed to "take care of them."

I use tables for general knowledge. I have a plastic Navy table permanently stuffed in my BC. However, I depend on my computers (I always carry two, until one breaks) as I like the freedom to slightly change my "recreational" profile while U/W (I am not a techie, I don't do overheads, and I don't do staged decompression). For a Sunday afternoon diver, computers are great!

thanks,

markm

---------- Post added December 22nd, 2015 at 05:43 PM ----------

Just to make the point, I don't think anyone has ever proved any alogrith "right" or "wrong". They are just best guesses in a field where results are highly randomised by factors we don't understand. Interesting how many times you read stories like Pete's about someone blowing off 20 minutes of deco but still walking around fine. These are blunt (and inherently conservative) calculations.

Hi Rhone Man,

I agree with you and I disagree with you. I am a little more positive regarding algorithms used in SCUBA computers. PDCs are beta tested everyday by thousands of divers. We are talking about a 30 year beta test with millions and millions of dives. Statistically, the computers do have a small failure rate (computational failure), but in almost every case, there are mitigating circumstances.

And, I was offended by your joke! I aint no totalitarian socialist! (just joking! [about being offended, that is]).

markm

---------- Post added December 22nd, 2015 at 05:55 PM ----------

Well, You guy's have some how changed this old school northeast wreck diver that has dived NAVY Tables since 1972 to buy a computer.. Just ordered 2 VEO 3.0 for the wife and myself.. Hope I don't get bent..

Jim

Hi oldschoolto,

I have the Aeris version of the 2.0 for my wrist. I really like it. Oceanic products have been good to me.

Computers can be a hassle if you don't memorize the button strokes for the screens you use most. I limit my U/W screen viewing to the very few that I really need. It is easier for me. Like tables, computers require a little training and repetition.

For my type of diving Suunto computers are way to conservative. I can adjust my Oceanic computers to a different algorithm if the need arises.

Good luck!

markm

 

[Steve_C]

None of them knew how to plan or conduct a dive using the computer properly nor had they sought out instruction other than the manual or each other on how to use it. Who is at fault here?

I have two computers. I know how to dive air and nitrox with them. I understand all the little warnings and symbols. I know how they handle mild deco. I know their quirks.

But I have never planned a dive on them. Could do it if I had to but I would rather not mess with the buttons. I carry both SDI and navy tables with me. If I need to decide whether a dive is doable and to approximate limits I can easily do so with the tables. However, almost none of my diving has some distant target. Dive plan on a wreck is designed to get us back to the anchor with plenty air to spare and then look around that area until time to go up. Ledge dives are the same. Essentially run thirds not counting my pony. Tables are sometimes used to decide how long a SI to do. That is easier to do with tables than futzing with a computer.