Are Rescue Skills really needed by the average diver.... ?

[TMHeimer]

Certainly, these are all good skills to have, but pragmatically, since one can't really perform CPR effectively while in water, you could also say that for diving purposes, "Rescue" could reasonably constrain its scope to essentially just in-water skill set.

For example, just how many Rescue Divers do we think there are out the with expired CPR certifications? Do we say that they're no longer a Rescue Diver if they've not maintained currency on its prerequisites? Why or why not?


-hh

Not quite sure what you're saying. CPR not doable in water yes, but once the victim is on board or ashore? Expired CPR (EFR, etc.) certifications don't mean much to me. I have to keep current, but have found the "review" classes, though well run, not very helpful. I review a page or two of my manual daily. I have never taken a written test other than the first time with EFR, and it wasn't even marked. I did a SJ Ambulance full day course once and again no test. You work the dummy for maybe 5 minutes 'til you do it perfect, pay your money, and you're certified, or renewed. Maybe watch a video. Maybe do a little bandaging. Being currently certified from a one day or less course doesn't mean you know what you're doing 3 weeks from now, IMO.

 

[herbdb]

I would really like to take Rescue, but I have no intention of taking Advanced Open Water- I do not want to do a deep dive (unless I can find someone who will just go to 61 ft and call it 'deep' but that seems a bit ridiculous.)

It seems very odd that PADI has a gateway to rescue skills that requires a deep dive. Shallow water divers could benefit from these skills as well. I'm hoping my buddy takes the class, and I can end up learning from him.

This is no longer true. PADI requires Adventure Diver prior to Rescue. Deep is not required for Adventure Cert. My understanding is that it was changed to allow people like you to take the Rescue Course.

---------- Post added August 19th, 2013 at 12:11 AM ----------

This article really brings it home: Man dies while scuba diving Dutch Springs - mcall.com

A man died today, even with Rescue certified divers present. If only OW divers were available, I'm sure the outcome would have been the same, but it reminds you that it could happen anywhere, anytime.

I heard that one diver (his buddy?) was successfully rescued during this incident. More details should be out soon.

 

[supergaijin]

Three dives as part of a course you have to PAY for and can't be just fun dives. Once students are done with the SEI ow course they have done panicked diver at the surface, unconscious diver from depth, supporting a diver at the surface and helping them get positive, and towing while stripping gear. In the OW course the instructor may also require additional skills if he/she feels they are necessary for local conditions as part of the certification requirements. No extra money required and no instructor supervision on the dives following between OW and the rescue class.

Wow- diving for free with SEI; if only I'd known....

Sounds like you're rationalising here Jim. 3 Adventure dives past the initial OW cert is simply not a big ask. PADI Adventure dives are (on paper) designed to expand a diver's experience and awareness of different forms of diving. Done correctly, this is a good platform to start the Rescue Course IMO.

 

[guruboy]

Both OW courses cost about the same. Jim is saying in SEI they also get some rescue training as part of OW. Hence it is 'free' compared to PADI.

Three specialty dives is $300-600 and time someone might not have or want to spend.

 

[supergaijin]

When it is factored in to the price of the course... nothing is 'free'.

Specialty Dives are not Adventure Dives which is required for the Rescue.... which rounds off a diver's training.

 

[WheelsUSN]

Three dives as part of a course you have to PAY for and can't just be fun dives.
...
No extra money required and no instructor supervision on the dives following between OW and the rescue class.

Yet an instructor that spends a lot of time marketing himself says on his website:

" The best thing to improve your diving is to dive! Having a little more professional guidance is just icing on the cake."

Why would the unnamed instructor recommend these extra dives with an instructor even after you have had extensive training?

"It will enable you to feel more comfortable in the water and with your hew found skills."

it seems that offering extra dives with additional training and expecting to get paid for it is only a bad thing if instructors with that other agency are doing it.

 

[herbdb]

These guys are in business, of course they want to sell their services. Nothing wrong there.

 

[corvettejoe]

...for me, not a huge surprise, I've seen this before. I require all new students to preform basic skills before they start any course.

Wasn't long and she was clearing like a champion. During the 3 hours I'd just point at her and she'd remove, replace and clear with little effort or concern.... She was beaming at herself and sharing big high 5's with the other two divers.

I applaud you NOT being one of those instructors that ignored the past inadequacies of previous training and spending the time to help this person perform these tasks that they should have been taught to begin with.

In one of my Intro to Cave classes, we had a student that had no idea how to do some of the basic skills learned in Cavern, stating their instructor never discussed some of these methods with him. We had to pause the class and went over these skills for a few hours until he understood them well enough to continue with the class. It ended up pushing us so far behind schedule that we had to schedule another weekend to complete everything. While I was a little annoyed at this, I am glad the instructor took the time and taught the student the skills necessary to continue on with the course we were doing.

So many people just glaze over subjects and assume they can just get reiterated on the students next course.

It's all part of the cert factory unfortunately

 

[guruboy]

When it is factored in to the price of the course... nothing is 'free'.

Specialty Dives are not Adventure Dives which is required for the Rescue.... which rounds off a diver's training.

I did not mean to say they are free. I meant they are 'free' when compared to PADI. If the price between two similar products are the same, but one product offers features not included in the other product, those features are 'free' add-ons in my book.

Yes, I should have used 'Adventure' instead of 'Specialty'. However, they are still guided dives. I think my $300-600 estimate is still a valid estimate for the three dives after you factor in instructor fees, rentals, entrance fees, travel expenses, etc.

 

[Tigerman]

I did not mean to say they are free. I meant they are 'free' when compared to PADI. If the price between two similar products are the same, but one product offers features not included in the other product, those features are 'free' add-ons in my book.

Yes, I should have used 'Adventure' instead of 'Specialty'. However, they are still guided dives. I think my $300-600 estimate is still a valid estimate for the three dives after you factor in instructor fees, rentals, entrance fees, travel expenses, etc.

If you want to factor in "rentals, entrance fees, travel expences, etc." for the THREE adventure dives, you should do so for the TEN "fun dives" as well...