Atomic Aquatics Cobalt Dive Computer

[jpdunc]

Computer was totally dry and stored in a temperature controlled room. The good news is that I found the problem two weeks before an upcoming Cozumel trip and more good news is that Divers Direct changed it out for a new one. It was only two months old and had about 12 Grand Cayman dives on it.

The bad news, Ron, is that Atomics quality control on this product is certainly tarnishing my opinion of the company and the possibility of purchasing additional Atomic products.

Obviously, based upon the previous several posts, this is not an isolated problem, but even though mine was registered from day one at the dealer, I have heard nothing from Atomic.

Further, the Atomic web site has shown "coming soon" on the software for months now. What's up with that?

Frankly, I am very disappointed that such a promising product has performed so poorly.

 

[bthinnes]

My 2 cents are they need to get the source from the developer, fire them and give the source to someone who can finish this initial phase, maintain the product and help move it forward. When you start having problems with a developer like this is usually isn't a good sign for the stability of the product nor updates in the future.

If they don't know of a good home for it, I certainly do. I have been developing software for over 20 years now and have a long list of incredibly talented developers/companies who can finish this project. They could probably write a new one from scratch in a few weeks. This stuff isn't complicated.

I would agree completely. This is now at a point that I have taken Atomic Aquatics off my selection list in the future. If they cannot see the damage they are causing with this perpetual leading on of their early adopters they are fools!

This is ridiculous, how can they not see that the developer is either not interested in their business or is incapable of either delivering the product promised or cannot properly estimate the time needed to complete the task at hand. In either case the developer would not be a resource for me under any circumstances. I would also get the source developed so far and fire the current contractor.

A lot of us have been patient for a loooong time and it’s time to put up or take the stupid coming soon sign down. Just like the old child’s gag, "I'll get to in January" But which January will that be? This January or the one in ten years?!

Getting real old now!!

 

[RonR]

Computer was totally dry and stored in a temperature controlled room. The good news is that I found the problem two weeks before an upcoming Cozumel trip and more good news is that Divers Direct changed it out for a new one. It was only two months old and had about 12 Grand Cayman dives on it.

The bad news, Ron, is that Atomics quality control on this product is certainly tarnishing my opinion of the company and the possibility of purchasing additional Atomic products.

Obviously, based upon the previous several posts, this is not an isolated problem, but even though mine was registered from day one at the dealer, I have heard nothing from Atomic.

Further, the Atomic web site has shown "coming soon" on the software for months now. What's up with that?

Frankly, I am very disappointed that such a promising product has performed so poorly.

If it didn't come up when connected to the AC charger, you may have had the problem I mentioned. As I've said before here, we have had relatively few Cobalt failures, but each one is taken personally- this is a product being made by people who really care about it.

I understand your frustration, but the problem was not in Atomic's quality control. I'll try to continue my pattern of being very open here, and try to explain why. Essentially, a fairly sophisticated and specialized component was, at least in some instances of parts we received, slightly out of the published specifications as to timing requirements when waking from a sleep state. The result was that if very specific other timing events related to AC charging occurred, the Cobalt wouldn't wake without a hard reset. The problem was rare, we didn't see it at all until many units were in the field. The infrequency of its occurrence made it very difficult to track down- we were never able to replicate it here. This is the sort of thing that gives electronics designers even more grey hair- there really isn't any realistic way Atomic could test for this, yet there was a problem. We put a great deal of detective energy into figuring out what was happening as soon as the first instances were reported- being obviously an electronics/ software issue it was really our area to deal with, rather than Atomic's. Atomic simply replaced any computers that showed this behavior (as you saw from Diver's Direct), and 100% of the returned computers worked when reset back at the factory, and we never had one have the problem again.

As it turned out, there is no problem with the chips, just with the specifications. As long as we allow in software for the actual performance we have no issue. So fortunately the potential for this problem to occur is removed with a firmware update, one that will also add some new features to the Cobalt. Believe me, we've racked our brains over how we could have spotted this before getting lots of units out being used, and haven't come up with anything. So blame us if you want to, but don't fault Atomic- it wasn't anything they did or didn't do.

The desktop software- I can offer no explanation. I've had a working copy for a while, and it seems to be fine except for missing some logged alerts. That, I believe is the detail to be fixed. I'll keep on it Monday.

 

[jaeckert]

As the embedded side designers/ developers for the Cobalt, we have always felt the best desktop dive logging software would come from third party developers who do desktop PC/ Mac/ Linnux software for a living, or from the open source community. So we are supporting Jef at libdivecomputer in writing a USB driver for the Cobalt, Nick with MacDive in doing the same using the Apple libraries, and Atomic's developer as well. It seems that most other dive computers don't use "real" USB, so the process was a bit more involved than just adapting their existing code. But through libdivecomputer there will be an open source driver available, and as a consequence we would hope that open source and third party software is encouraged. So in that sense Atomic is officially supporting open source solutions, as well as software like Diving Log and MacDive.

Atomic felt they needed to offer a proprietary software package, so they contracted that job out (we are not desktop software developers- just thinking about keeping track of different versions of Windows gives us queasy feelings). From what I understand, the developer has other projects competing for his time, and this has taken longer than anyone anticipated. So far as I know there are no fundamental problems, other than the time it has taken- which is, granted, pretty basic.

I, for one, didn't realize what a big issue this would be- naively thinking that with 600 hours or so of dive log storage on the Cobalt, and with detailed information easily accessible, that not having the desktop software right away wouldn't matter a lot. Clearly I was wrong about that . But we are working to have a variety of options available soon.

Hi RonR,

I really don't want to be one more of "those guys." I have great respect for the way you personally have represented yourself, your company, and your company's product from the beginning. I am also grateful for your continued transparency throughout the Cobalt's release. Even through more than a few crabby diver's harsh words. You have never (publicly) taken them personally. And that only reflects that much more on your own integrity.

That said (and I know NOTHING about software); isn't the above quote an oxymoron? I thought the whole purpose of "proprietary" anything was to deny access to everyone else (as opposed to "open source"). Could that be what is causing the hold up?

As for the computer; I have had one since February 11, charged once (via A/C) February 11 (evening), and now have 6 recorded dives totaling 4 hours and 57 minutes. As of this posting I still have a battery reading of 76% (still the first charge, and checked as of 11:24 PM daylight mountain time).

My only concern/observation/question is the compass seems quite lethargic. Perhaps it is only due to my familiarity/comfort with mechanical versions. I know Atomic intentionally tried to dampen the sensitive nature of traditional compasses. Is this something that might become end-user adjustable in the future? Or, am I the only one to perceive this?

Please keep your chin up. You do your company proud. I would have returned my Cobalt to my LDS already with the ongoing "next week" replies Atomic has stated (starting with the person who answered the phone at Atomic when I asked my LDS to call the day I purchased mine - you are not the only employee who has been told, or repeateted this); except you, and your ongoing willingness to step out here in this forum (unprovoked; and as far as I can tell, uncompensated) give me continued hope in why I have bought (and continue to believe in) Atomic.

Respectfully,

Joel

 

[RonR]

That said (and I know NOTHING about software); isn't the above quote an oxymoron? I thought the whole purpose of "proprietary" anything was to deny access to everyone else (as opposed to "open source"). Could that be what is causing the hold up?

When I said proprietary, I meant something with their logo and done according to their specifications. Many third party dive log apps might not track, for instance, multi gas dives, or register the same alerts. It's also necessary to have an end user solution for upgrading the firmware, which would ideally be integrated into the desktop divelog. Atomic has been 100% OK with working with open source dive log developers and with libdivecomputer for open source driver support. They just weren't comfortable with relying entirely on that path.

As for the computer; I have had one since February 11, charged once (via A/C) February 11 (evening), and now have 6 recorded dives totaling 4 hours and 57 minutes. As of this posting I still have a battery reading of 76% (still the first charge, and checked as of 11:24 PM daylight mountain time).

That's about right- you should be able to have something like six months of standby on a full battery, subject to some environmental variations.

My only concern/observation/question is the compass seems quite lethargic. Perhaps it is only due to my familiarity/comfort with mechanical versions. I know Atomic intentionally tried to dampen the sensitive nature of traditional compasses. Is this something that might become end-user adjustable in the future? Or, am I the only one to perceive this?

The rate of compass display update is a limitation, due to the processing involved, so we are not going to see a video-smooth motion. We "swing" the display like a dampened analog compass, moving to a new heading incrementally, so it doesn't appear to jump too far suddenly. That actually ends up being pretty disconcerting. The damping was chosen in field testing, and wile a lot of people initially thought it was slow on the surface it was well liked underwater.

Please keep your chin up. You do your company proud. I would have returned my Cobalt to my LDS already with the ongoing "next week" replies Atomic has stated (starting with the person who answered the phone at Atomic when I asked my LDS to call the day I purchased mine - you are not the only employee who has been told, or repeateted this); except you, and your ongoing willingness to step out here in this forum (unprovoked; and as far as I can tell, uncompensated) give me continued hope in why I have bought (and continue to believe in) Atomic.

Respectfully,

Joel

Thanks, I do try not to take comments personally, there are legitimate complaints that need to be heard (no case included, no divelog software available, sub-optimal screen protector...), and I have picked up good ideas from this forum, some of which are already in the Cobalt. No one at Atomic has been intentionally misleading, and the situation with the software has been incredibly frustrating for them as well- it was demoed at DEMA in November of 2010 and has been nearly complete since December.

Just to be clear, while we are the original developers of the Cobalt design, and have worked closely with Atomic for years now to turn this into a real product, I don't work for or necessarily speak for Atomic. We feel very fortunate to be working with them on this project and future products, they are a top quality company. While there have been a few glitches as with any new product, they have been handled with the customer's interest as the top concern. The most persistent complaints have focused around speed- initially of getting the Cobalt out, and now delivering the download software- and those come largely from Atomic's desire to do things right the first time.

 

[jpdunc]

Ron, you certainly represent Atomic well and, perhaps, my post was a bit harsh. However, I was quite disappointed by the apparent battery failure.

Here is the sequence of events as best I can recall them. I purchased the Cobalt in early February prior to a week in Grand Cayman. Throughout the week, it performed as expected and with no necessary battery charging.

Upon returning home here in FL, we stored all of our dive gear including the Cobalt in a temperature controlled room. Saturday, we purchased new ZUMA travel BC's for an upcoming trip to Cozumel and decided to pool test them, since the design is a bit radical versus our existing gear.

The Cobalt was absolutely dead and would not display anything. When connected to the AC adapter, the display would come on showing old dates and time and not much else. It did indicate "charging", but it obviously wasn't, since after 24 hours of charging, it still showed no charge and the old dates and time. I had reset them while it was connected to the AC adapter.

I was very pleasantly surprised when Divers Direct swapped out the defective unit for a new one on Sunday morning. It has been charged to 100% and appears to be working well. I registered the warranty for the new one last night on line so, hopefully, the first was an abberation and we are good. However, I must add that the down arrow button is a bit challenging to find the exact contact point to make it work.

So...is the problem with Unit #1 something I could have fixed with your coaching or did the unit need to be replaced?

Thanks,

 

[RonR]

So...is the problem with Unit #1 something I could have fixed with your coaching or did the unit need to be replaced?

Thanks,

Probably not- if it was really not charging while showing the "charging" message it would need to be replaced, or at least the battery would. Though it could be as simple as a loose connection at the battery plug. I don't know the battery level when you stored the Cobalt, but a full battery should give over six months of standby, 50% about three months, etc.

If the battery goes completely dead, and you connect it to the AC charger, the Cobalt will come back up to the Time/Date screen and will display the time of the last dive- the last time it has in its memory. If the battery goes dead, you will always have to reset the time. So that part appears to have been working properly. However, the battery should have been charged back up to 100% in a little over two hours on the AC charger, and once you set the time, it should have stayed set. If it was not taking a charge, then either the battery has failed or a component on the board has failed (or the battery is not securely plugged in). In either case it would have to go back to Atomic. It doesn't sound as if you had the problem I was describing that can be fixed with a reset.

In the time you had #1, did you ever successfully charge the battery? And am I correct in assuming that the "charging" message was displaying on screen in the Main Menu (as opposed to nothing, or "charge stopped"), but the charge % was not increasing? Atomic charges them up before shipping them out, so we can assume it worked when shipped. My top suspicion based on what you have said is that the battery connection was not securely seated, and came loose at some point- but I couldn't say without looking.

If you PM me with info that will help me track #1 down (name, serial # if you have it) I would be very interested in checking what actually happened.

 

[Hatul]

I bet they got some bad Chinese batteries.

Adam

 

[RonR]

I bet they got some bad Chinese batteries.

Adam

Actually, while the batteries are from China, we've been using them for years and they have been highly reliable. The Cobalt itself, though, is entirely built in the U.S.

 

[Downing]

Are they built at the same Atomica facility where the regs are made?

Just curious.

I'd love to tour that place someday.