Back Roll Entry Head Injury

[djcheburashka]

Was my post helpful to the average or beginner diver?

Not really. It prompted a slew of folks promoting bad advice or seeking to blame the operator. This is a real problem, for reasons I explain below.

Did you read the part where I assumed full responsibility for the accident? Did you read the part where I said I should not have been wearing the hat (it was my 3rd roll with the hat and last day of diving, and it would not have been used again even without this accident)? The hat could have been anything else that served as a distraction. The point is that I allowed myself to become distracted by something and that directly led to my injury. I learned my lesson the hard way and hope to prevent it from happening to someone else. Simply immediately finning away from the boat would have prevented this and allowed for a positive entry.

I read that part, and it seemed to me (and still does) that you don't understand what you did wrong. The problem wasn't your hat. The first problem is that you weren't behaving as a conscientious diver. You weren't mindful of your equipment, and entered three times with a mask that kept coming off. How did you not get your mask right when you first geared-up?!?! The problem here isn't the hat or the mask. Its that you weren't paying attention to your own gear or thinking through what you were doing gearing-up, entering the water, or after the dive. Its a diver-attitude problem, not a gear problem.

The second problem is that you did a positive entry. And you still believe that's a good idea. You entered with your BC inflated, which meant that *it* and the waves, rather than you, would decide where you'd be when you hit the surface.

The second problem is an expression of the first -- you were performing a maneuver (a back entry) that you didn't know how to do, and weren't comfortable doing. Its a diver-attitude problem.

There was not much of an entry briefing. We were told to signal okay to the captain after entering, which would be hard to do from 10 feet down. On my 4 previous trips to Cozumel, every time by every operator we were told to enter positive, meet up on the surface and then descend together.

I believe you were told to meet on the surface; I doubt you were told to enter with your bc so inflated that you never passed more than 2' under the surface. But, discussion below...

If you have all the answers, have nothing left to learn, and can only pass judgment instead of engaging politely in the discussion, perhaps you should not waste your time reading or posting to this forum.

Do I have all the answers? Of course not. Some problems are hard. This one was not. This one was easy and obvious.

Was I aggressive in responding? Yes, but not so much because of your post as the volume of material that followed it -- a host of terrible advice along with one after another after another theory of how the boat operator should establish new procedures to prevent things like this happening again.

That is a problem. It's a problem for you, for me, and for everyone else who dives. Why is it a problem? Because it means more dive operators so afraid of incompetent divers that they implement rigid, unnecessary procedures that interfere with competent divers being able to enjoy our dives.

Competent, trained rebreather divers have trouble finding boats willing to accommodate their gear. Competent, trained divers are told they would not be allowed a second dive if their bottom time exceeds, say, 20 minutes on a dive with a 100' bottom. (20 min would be the NDL for an *average* depth of 100', not a max depth.) Competent, trained divers are told they can't bring a light (to, say, look under rocks or inside a wreck) on a day dive. Competent, trained divers are told they aren't allowed to bring high-O2 mixtures in pony/stage bottles.

And for those of us *more* advanced, we have to book separate, far harder to arrange, far more expensive "technical" trips which differ from other trips only in price and what gear we are allowed to bring.

On one dive I did a few years ago, to the Vandenburg, my buddy was told she couldn't do the second dive of the day. Why? Because her computer extended her safety stop and that meant she'd "done a deco." But, I said, you can see by *my* computer that we had exactly the same profile (except for the part where I'd scootered forty feet down into the wreck vertically to see if it was worth her coming down...). That's fine, they said -- because my computer (actually a depth timer that didn't track deco) didn't say *I* had gone into deco. So it was fine for me to dive again. That's a stupid rule put in place to "protect" divers, because a bunch of folks who don't want to take the time or put in the effort to learn very basic diving skills shrilly insist that the boat is obligated to "ensure" their safety.

Some operators *might* even start directing their divers to do positive back entries. The reason some *might* do that is they think the divers are so incompetent that the risk of them having a problem on entry, not being able to recover, and sinking to the bottom is greater than the real, serious, risk you experienced, which is that the diver crashes into the boat or blocks the next person entering.

When they told you to do a positive entry (*if* that's what they actually said), do you think they *weren't* warning you to not get in the pool without your floaties?

Some us would like to be treated like adults when we dive.

 

[Scuba Nettie]

Hi,

There have been a number of good comments. I have been on quite a few boats where back roll is the only way to exit the boat. However, on not all boats has the procedure been one where everyone goes at once. Where separate entry is the case, it is the responsibility of:
1. The diver who has entered the water needs to get out of the way as quickly as possible for the next diver -- especially when there is current and everyone needs to get in the water right away. His or her gear needs to be secured and ready to go before hitting the water so there is a minimum of readjustment afterwards.
2. The diver about to enter the water needs to confirm visually and via question to the captain that the space that he or she will be rolling into is clear for entry.
3. The captain or other assistants on the boat need to confirm visually that the water is clear before giving the go-ahead to the next diver to enter the water.

ALL of you were responsible. Regarding cameras -- some cameras with housing are small enough to take with you on the back roll. Others are too large and risk flooding in a back roll. It is the diver's responsibility to communicate with the crew on the boat so that he or she can get their camera quickly and not be in the way of the next diver.

Strong currents present additional concerns. Many boats tell divers to swim to the anchor line after entry and hold on until all divers are in the water before descending if the current is strong and making it difficult to stay together. In such conditions, you also need to have small numbers of divers per dive master to make sure that the dive master is able to keep everyone together and keep track of everyone. I like boats that have a policy of a maximum of 6 divers per dive master and preferably a maximum of 4 per dive master.

 

[LarsB]

Clearly, I need a different head covering that will not come off on back-roll entries.

See e.g. Aeroskin - Hood

 

[carltona]

Here's a back roll. https://vimeo.com/101097558
[video=vimeo;101097558]https://vimeo.com/101097558[/video]

 

[djcheburashka]

Was there any purpose to that other that to advertise your video, which doesn't even show the parts of the maneuver that we were talking about in the thread? This thing was properly dead, and on the right note-it's a mystery why it's been suddenly and pointlessly revived.

 

[LarsB]

This thing was properly dead, and on the right note-it's a mystery why it's been suddenly and pointlessly revived.

Because it appeared in the ScubaBoard Newsletter "ScubaBoard News Highlights - June" TODAY.

 

[djcheburashka]

Oh joy.

 

[carltona]

I made this for you to show you how I typically exit the water "Oh and to further promote my awesome video skills.)

[video=vimeo;101139743]https://vimeo.com/101139743[/video]

 

[djcheburashka]

I was hoping to put the thing to rest... I get what you were trying to do, I think you also get that some people may have thought you were posting an instructional video. Which is what I thought you were trying to do.

Sigh...

 

[jacked_72]

Welcome to the internet where everybody knows more than the next guy and his is always bigger.

I got whacked by a buddy back rolling on top of me in Coz. Looking back it was pretty stupid how it happened. Three of us are on one side of the boat ready to back roll, current is moving front to back. We don't all go at the same time and the last guy in whacks me as I drift to the back of the boat. Lesson learned. I don't want to be the first one in again an make myself a target.