Backplate wing setup for entry/transition

[Levigarrett]

As I prepare to buy my first BP/W after having dived jacket-style BCs for some time, it seems to me that it is much more true that all BP/Ws are similar to each other than all jacket-style BCs are similar to each other. It seems to me that manufacturers of jacket-style BCs go out of their way to provide things that differentiate their brand from others, whereas manufacturers of BP/Ws can't and don't do much to differentiate themselves from each other. A more expensive BP might have a nicer finish than a cheaper one, but I suspect many divers don't care. And there might be some differences in wing construction quality among manufacturers, but those differences still seem minor to me in comparison with differences among jacket-style BCs.

Am I right?

Clearly my quote was a bit petulant. I think you're probably on the right path here. I have two BP's and two wings. One of my setup's is Scubapro (SS Doubles setup) and the other is a combination Hollis/DiveRite (Al singles setup). I certainly think the quality of the Scubapro BP is superior to the Diverite but it's also more expensive and I couldn't honestly tell you that the extra funds spent are going to provide an ounce of greater life/usefulness.

I think your post rings true for the most part. The BP/harness particularly, as for the wing, I think quality and workmanship are a bit more important and I'd spend the extra funds on that component if I were forced to choose one. Take care, best of luck.

 

[fjpatrum]

Hhhmmm, all gear is the same. There's no difference in quality or workmanship....I never knew that! I'll adjust my spending habit accordingly.

While I recognize that you mean that at least partly in jest, what I said is still true.

Compare manufacturing techniques and materials between different manufacturers and you're simply not going to find any significant differences for similar sized wings. I have yet to find a poorly made wing no matter what marketing hype people spew. All the "big" manufacturers are using essentially the same materials and processes for the wings and anyone getting "bad gear" got a lemon, not a poor quality manufacturer. Companies that do that simply don't stay in business, especially in a niche market like this. It's also trivially easy to build this equipment properly (and relatively cheaply).

There really isn't much you can do to a plate, workmanship wise, other than deburring/radiusing the slots and holes and maybe some finishing/buffing differences. Those are entirely cosmetic and certainly not worth paying double the price (for some plates versus others) for essentially 5 minutes worth of work.

And, like I said, nylon webbing is nylon webbing (harness). That's certainly not rocket science.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

As I prepare to buy my first BP/W after having dived jacket-style BCs for some time, it seems to me that it is much more true that all BP/Ws are similar to each other than all jacket-style BCs are similar to each other. It seems to me that manufacturers of jacket-style BCs go out of their way to provide things that differentiate their brand from others, whereas manufacturers of BP/Ws can't and don't do much to differentiate themselves from each other. A more expensive BP might have a nicer finish than a cheaper one, but I suspect many divers don't care. And there might be some differences in wing construction quality among manufacturers, but those differences still seem minor to me in comparison with differences among jacket-style BCs.

Am I right?

Well, all conventional BP/W manufacturers are about the same, that is until you run into one of my plates, (if you are using single tanks).

Shameless self serving plug - and proud of it.

 

[victorzamora]

fjpatrum, I agree that plates are plates and I DEFINITELY agree that a harness is a harness. I also know that after fiddling with multiple "fancy" (read: "complicated") harness setups....the basic/boring hog harness is the best. Most people end up realizing that after they've bought the "nicer" one. That's what happened to me. What's NOT the same is the wing. A nice wing mfg will be more resilient to leaks/tears/pinches/failures of the air cell. Nice wings will have nicer hosing that is more trustworthy as well as a more simple/secure and higher quality LPI and OPV. The sealing procedures for the threads for the opv/lpi should also be better. I'm not saying more expensive is better, I'm just saying there's a lot of headway to be made with a nicer wing. If I were on a budget (I am, and who isn't?), I'd buy cheap plate and harness and get as nice of a wing as I could afford. Part of the wing decision would be on current online specials and/or what my LDS sells and their prices.

Well, all conventional BP/W manufacturers are about the same, that is until you run into one of my plates, (if you are using single tanks).

**No sarcasm**
Well, pardon my ignorance....but could you explain further? You've got me curious.

---------- Post added June 13th, 2013 at 08:36 AM ----------

After some research, I see that you're talking about your Freedom plate. Which I like....but not necessarily as a first backplate.

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[Lorenzoid]

Well, all conventional BP/W manufacturers are about the same, that is until you run into one of my plates, (if you are using single tanks).

Shameless self serving plug - and proud of it.

Eric, I've been following the threads mentioning your product, and it does look pretty cool. Some questions did occur to me, but I didn't bother chiming in because others eventually raised them and also because, at least for my first BP/W purchase I'm going to stick with something completely conventional. Also, because I almost exclusively dive single Al 80s in warm water (very occasionally a steel 100), a heavier conventional plate seems to make sense. I know you said it's only a few pounds difference, but a few pounds off my waist is a few pounds off my waist, or so the DIR people tell me.

 

[victorzamora]

One thing about warm water diving and needing the weight.....if you're traveling, wouldn't you rather that weight on your waist than in your suitcase? I have to fly to good warm water destinations....and I'd much rather rent weights for my weight belt than lose poundage in my suitcase.

Also, I really don't get this hatred of weight belts. When you walk around fully geared up you weigh the same whether it's on your waist or on your back. A heavy, stainless plate just keeps the minimum amount of weight you dive with higher.....reducing how flexible your weight selection can be.

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[Lorenzoid]

One thing about warm water diving and needing the weight.....if you're traveling, wouldn't you rather that weight on your waist than in your suitcase? I have to fly to good warm water destinations....and I'd much rather rent weights for my weight belt than lose poundage in my suitcase.

Also, I really don't get this hatred of weight belts. When you walk around fully geared up you weigh the same whether it's on your waist or on your back. A heavy, stainless plate just keeps the minimum amount of weight you dive with higher.....reducing how flexible your weight selection can be.

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This has been the debate I've been having with my mentor recently. I've been advised that to achieve proper trim, it's better to have as much of the weight on one's back as possible and as little on the waist as possible. But in general I have no objection to a weight belt or putting weight pockets on a cam band.

There are pros and cons to a heavier or lighter plate, even though the difference is said to be just a few pounds. One one hand, I do a bit of globetrotting, and I have been known to leave behind an old pair of running shoes and some t-shirts to get the weight down to below some puddlejumper airline's 15 kg limit. On the other hand, I often dive in the relatively nearby Caribbean and usually take an airline that gives me a generous weight allowance, avoiding the puddle jumpers if possible. A possible solution is to use a steel plate for most of my diving and a lighter plate (nothing wrong with my current Zeagle Express Tech) for extreme globetrotting.

 

[jgl51]

Three comments: 1. One decision point on a BP is the material - stainless steel (SS), aluminum (AL), or kydex / some similar material. In part your choice will depend on where you usually dive (warm salt water, I presume from your post), what your usual exposure suit is, what your standard cylinder is (steels, according to your post) and your inherent buoyancy. In the end, the material doesn't make that much difference. When I dive the Caribbean, with a 1 mm suit and an AL 80, I use a SS BP, and still need added weight. So, for me SS is the way to go (the only time I use an AL plate is with steel doubles, diving wet). But, you know your inherent buoyancy better than the people responding here. I personally prefer a SS plate because it takes weight of my waist. Your preferences may differ. 2. I don't find a lot of difference between a small donut vs a small horseshoe wing. I happen to prefer my Halcyon donut wing, but I can make either work. So, while you may receive strong input one way or the other, the choice may not be critical. Probably, a more important consideration is getting a (small) wing intended for single cylinder use, with 18 - 30 lb lift. With a steel cylinder you may want a wing than tends toward the larger end of the scale. 3. I will stay out of the brand discussion. I dive a variety of gear brands (Dive Rite, Halcyon, OMS, DSS, Oxycheq, Zeagle, etc) and have trouble distinguishing between them in performance. Go where you get responsive customer service at a fair price, or where you get the absolutely cheapest price if service is not an issue. As an aiside, I have dealt with DGX both online and in person, and have always had a good experience. One additional approach to 'financially feasible' is to buy used. Years ago, I started out with a used (eBay) OMS SS BP and harness ($70), a used (eBay) Dive Rite Wing ($115), and a used (eBay) STA ($30). My first BP/W set up cost me all of $215. I still have, and dive, all three components. Since then, I have added a number of BPs and wings to the inventory, and purchased a few of them new (albeit at staff prices through my LDS). After my first purchase, I have made all of my own harnesses from webbing and hardware purchased from my LDS. I prefer that approach for cost, but I suspect that not everyone will necessarily endorse it. There is another currently active SB thread .

Thanks for a very detailed reply.
I have the same interest as the original poster and, unfortunately, do not have access to a store where i can try the win(s). I also note your remark concerning no pocket. A change after diving a BC!!
My question is the following:

If one dives in various conditions (all single tank) i.e. 3, 5 and 7mm wetsuit as well as (trilaminate) dry-suit, is it feasible to buy a universal or modular wing or does one need a warm water (3 / 5mm) and a cold water (7mm / dry suit)?
Except for travel weight, anything speaks against Steel backplate or should one consider two, includign one for travel when limited by total luggage weight?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

"or so the DIR people tell me".

All I can tell you is, keep an open mind.
There's more than one way to skin a cat, and many different ways to "Do It Right".

 

[victorzamora]

There are no real drawbacks with either plate other than the weight issue. Buuing two would be a good solution to the weight problem....but re-weaving a harness every time you switch will suck. Cave Adventurers has harnesses for $30. Buy two if you're buying two plates.

As far as wings are concerned. Some like having small wings. Others like excessive buoyancy. However, the only buoyancy you'll need to overcome (if you're properly weighted) is compression buoyancy on your wetsuit and the change of air in your tank. You don't need much lift, even if you're diving with 24# of lead to get neutral. You need to overcome EXCESS weight, neoprene compression, and tank weight shift. A wing good for cold is good for warm. I dont buy into this emotion that you'll die if you dive too big/small of a wing (within reason). I think most people dive wings that are too big like most people dive too negative. Better safe than sorry.

Now, If you're buying a backplate and harness just for travel....I'd skip alu and just buy a kydex plate. They're much lighter. If youre doing all of that....then another wing WILL be in your future. Just fyi

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